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Post by mink on Feb 16, 2012 13:13:46 GMT -5
The tricky thing is that one usually doesn't write ones own obituary. Even so, I am getting the sense that Madeleine never really knew this father of hers. He may have left while she was still a very little girl and, if Robinson spoke French, even her mother may have taken him for a Frenchman! How was a Dakota supposed to know whatsort of name was "Robinson"? Regardless, somewhere along the line Madeleine should have realized she did not have a French surname--one would think.
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Post by madrock on Feb 16, 2012 16:37:48 GMT -5
I see where you found that Madeline's father was a frenchman. she would sure have known who her father was, although, she did not mention their names, whereas her brother Thomas mentioned the name of his father, saying he was a whiteman. The granddaughter who I suspect provided information for the obituary knew the Rocque's were traders and French and probably never gave a thought that Robinson was not French. |
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Post by hermin1 on Feb 19, 2012 13:00:14 GMT -5
mink. that make sense to me.she would have been too young to remember who her father was. I amwondering if Thomas her brother may also have been too young to remember his father.
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Post by hermin1 on Feb 19, 2012 13:08:03 GMT -5
mink: what is your reference for Dennis Robinson getting the posts in Minnesota from the American Fur Company? or are you speculating about this?
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Post by hermin1 on Feb 19, 2012 14:00:50 GMT -5
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Post by mink on Feb 19, 2012 14:37:26 GMT -5
Yes, that was his mother-in-law, Mrs. Capt. Abram Neely. Still, that would not preclude this Dennis Robinson, brother of Rix Robinson, from being the father of Madeleine Robinson. I have written to a couple of people but it seems nothing is known of the younger years of Rix's brother--Rix being the famous one of the family. Remember, we have not been able to find any mention of Madeleine's father beyond 1833, when Featherstonhaugh's guide, Milor, claimed to have seen him at Prairie du Chien. One source I read said he left the American Fur Company but it didn't specify when. As far as we know, Dennis Robinson, Madeleine's father, had not actually been married to her native mother and, under the law, was free to contract a marriage at any time. I'm glad you're still following through on this, too, Hermin. One of these days we might come across something to confirm or rule out the identification of Rix's brother with Madeleine's father.
If you or MR have access to "snapshots" of the censuses, could you look up for me, in the one of 1860, someone living in the household of Lucien Galtier of Prairie du Chien, Crawford County. It is Ann Fitzpatric [sic], presumably his housekeeper. I would like to know where she was born.
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Post by mink on Feb 19, 2012 15:00:37 GMT -5
mink: what is your reference for Dennis Robinson getting the posts in Minnesota from the American Fur Company? or are you speculating about this? Nope--not speculating. I posted this some time ago in the "Dennis Robinson Family" thread: images.library.wisc.edu/EcoNatRes/EFacs/NAPC/NAPC09/reference/econatres.napc09.nwoolworth.pdf"Hazen Mooers and Dennis Robinson in 1819 built two American Fur Company posts in western Minnesota. Sent out in 1818 by by James H. lockwood, Mooers and Robinson moved in the spring of 1819 into posts at Lac qui Parle and Big Stone Lake. Lockwood also sent Duncan Campbell to a trading post at the mouth of the Minnesota River; Scott Campbell to a trading post at Traverse des Sioux; and Augustin Rocque to a wintering post at Lake Pepin." (Sibley Papers, Roll 1} |
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Post by nncy58 on Feb 19, 2012 15:28:37 GMT -5
The Thomas Quinn you are looking is the Thomas Quinn who was the son of Mrs. Louise Siyowin(prairie chicken) Boucher, and Peter Quinn(dec'd). She remarried to Itewakanhdiota. Thomas was born @ 1860/1861 in MN,married Jennie Cloudman in 1881 at the Goodwill Mission,SD.(Iapi Oayea/The word Carrier). there is yet a third Thomas Quinn, who was the son of Henry Quinn, son of William Quinn Sr. I checked my file on the Quinns and there was the documentation re. Angelique Jeffries married to William Quinn,Sr. What a reassurance that my photographic memory is still working. hahahah ___ Update Joseph died and is buried at Lac Qui parle. His daughter Betsy died in 1887. That is awesome!!That is the connection for my ggggrandfather Thomas Quinn I was trying to find. Where did you find that ? I knew his mother was Siyowin but couldn't figure the rest out. And yes your memory is working just fine!! |
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Post by madrock on Feb 20, 2012 7:07:59 GMT -5
If you or MR have access to "snapshots" of the censuses, could you look up for me, in the one of 1860, someone living in the household of Lucien Galtier of Prairie du Chien, Crawford County. It is Ann Fitzpatric [sic], presumably his housekeeper. I would like to know where she was born. I can help with an easy one this morning. Ann Fitzpatric, 45 year old female, occupation House Keeper, place of birth Ireland. The enumerator's entries are in excellent cursive and the photocoping as well. The spelling of the surname was definitely Fitzpatric, although it could still be incorrect as you've indicated. |
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Post by mink on Feb 20, 2012 11:38:14 GMT -5
Thanks, MR!
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Post by hermin1 on Feb 20, 2012 16:02:56 GMT -5
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Post by hermin1 on Feb 20, 2012 16:12:58 GMT -5
mink: my computer must be having a PMS day. Icould not open the link re. Dennis robinson and Hazen Moores, so I went back to your first posting of it and it workedin the Dennis Robinson thread. So i copied theaddress and inserted in your ref. I hope that is okay.
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Post by hermin1 on Feb 20, 2012 17:43:44 GMT -5
My main reason for confirming the paternity of Madeline and Thomas robinson, is that I have been-and still am-helping the descendants of Thomas and Madeline trace their ancestry.
As I mentioned previously re. Rix robinson's family, they areof english ancestry. The descendents of thomas and Madeline say Dennis Robinson was of Scotch-Irish Ancestry.
As my friends and many of the sioux Families I have helped, will tell you, when I go tracking someone,I am like "A Flea On A Dog." hahahah I had one family, that I have been helping for for 7 years and I found the last link in their tree, just 5 months ago. I have a "Hit List" of surnames that I kept handy when I do my searches at my research 'Haunts". It helps quite a bit to know the history,of the regions where these native americans lived in, and also the history, culture and customs of the peoples themselves. I also learned some of the Dakota and lakota language, and have dictionaries to help me with the names.
The problem,or snag, is that there were no censuses in Minnesota, prior to 1849,so trying to find someone there,is very difficult if not impossible.
We may never know if this Dennis Robinson was or wasn't Rix Robinson's brother.
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Post by hermin1 on Feb 20, 2012 17:50:01 GMT -5
Back then,common law marriages as I choose to call them,were a custom of the native Americans, and fur traders often went by the same custom when they were dealing with the Native Americans. I have records of some traders who had as many as 5 Indian wives.
I have a great respect for many of the French Traders,because they maried their native women by ceremony, and baptized their children.
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Post by hermin1 on Feb 20, 2012 20:38:20 GMT -5
I was able to find Dennis Robinson in a M.A. thesis by Rollo C. Keithahn,"The American Fur Company in the Upper Mississippi Valley". U. of Minn.1929.pp.40-52.
According to this thesis, Dennis Robinson was trading on the Upper Mississippi from 1820-1821,then he was trading on the St. Peter's river from 1822-1823.After 1823, he is no longer mentioned in the American Fur Company records.
So as you mentioned earlier mink, he was(Correction: may have indeed been) the sire of Thomas and Madeline.he was what I would call a case of "Breed and Run."I apologize for this remark. it was uncalled for).
Update,I am wondering if,the brotherof Rix robinson may have stayed in Wisconin ,and was helping his brother Rix, before he returned to New York sometime before 1830.
We'll nevert know ,as there aren't any census records for that period of time.
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Update:
I meant to say Dennis was trading on the St. eters river therough late 1823.After that there was no mention of him.
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Post by mink on Feb 20, 2012 22:04:45 GMT -5
I don't think it escaped your notice, Hermin, that Dennis Robinson had to have remained somewhere in Minnesota past 1823 if he was the father of Thomas Robinson, who thought he was born around 1826, according to the age given in his affidavit. If not working for the American Fur Company, I wonder what he was doing--and also what he was up to at Prairie du Chien around 1833--when Milor claimed to have seen him.
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Post by mink on Feb 20, 2012 22:25:40 GMT -5
Or perhaps Thomas Robinson was older than he said or thought. Checking back in Featherstonhaugh--if his account is anything to go by--it was 1835 and Robinson, the deserter of his family had already been missing for 15 winters. 15 years from 1835 equals 1820. Someone got the notion [according to the source I cited] that Robinson had been trading in Minnesota since 1819 and that was from the Sibley Papers, probably true. I suppose he had time to father two children by 1820, one each year--but Hermin's source has him around until 1823. All told, the evidence points to Tom Robinson having been born before 1826--and we already know Madeleine, his sister, was born around 1820. There was time for yet another child, as well, fathered by Dennis Robinson.
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Post by hermin1 on Feb 21, 2012 18:52:50 GMT -5
i agree.BUT,Thomas Robinson said in his affidavit that he was @32 yrs old. subtract 32 from 1855, you get 1823. the Applications were made and evaluated bet. 1855-1857.i don't know where Thomas made out his affidavit and when, but it had to be within that 1855-1857 time frame.he also may have been younger than he thought as well.
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update and correction:
I rescanned the affidavit and was able to clear it up more. I stand correct4ed agasin. Thomas wrote that he was 'about 30 years old".this would put his estimated birth date to where MadRock mentioned earlier, @ 1825/1826, depending on when the affidavit was submitted.
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Post by hermin1 on Mar 10, 2012 18:59:47 GMT -5
In Lac Qui parle, its Missionaries ,Traders and Indians,by prf. Donald Dean parker.1965.SDSu press. Brookings, is mention in J. Palmer Bbourke's notes of seeing Robinson and Mooers settled at lac Qui Parle, I believe by 1820, and he mentions that they also had another post.by Big Stone Lake.
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Post by lwhitman on Mar 17, 2012 17:15:27 GMT -5
Mink and MadRock: A lot happens on this site when you look away! You both provided a great deal of valuable information for me. MadRock, you noted in one of your posts that “Because the given or first names of Augustin[e] and Joseph are repeated one generation after another the article "Metis in the Prairie du Chien area" is a very confusing piece of information.” You are so right, and there is a lot of conflicting information as well. I appreciate your efforts to help me sort it out.
Mink, you provided this cemetery information on:
LaRogue,Joseph JR 1861---1937
Clara J. 1861---1938
LaRocque,Peter R. Jan;23,1891---Aug;26,1959,WWI
Sophia E. 1891---1966
You said, “The first one is surely "LaRoque" and not "LaRogue" but doesn't seem to be your Joseph.” That is, in fact, my Joseph (GGF) known as “3-finger Joe.” He shot off two of his fingers in a hunting accident. He is the son of the 1827 Joseph (GGGF) and the father of Peter (my grandfather). I have extensive documentation on all three of them.
Since last fall, I have found more clues. According to the 1856 marriage information for Joseph LaRocque and Elizabeth Grimard, Joseph’s father is listed as "G.B. LaRocque" and his mother as "Elizabeth LaRocque." In French, "J" is pronounced "zhee," which may have been recorded as "G” instead of “J.”
Given the information you both provided, it seems very possible that the Jean Baptiste Roc born in 1805 may be my GGGGF. However, I have one more question for you. I have been told that families with the last name of Roc/Roque/Rocque/Rock were never referenced in any records or documents with the “La” prefix (LaRocque, LaRoque, etc.). If that is true, it would rule out Hansen’s Roc/Rock lineage. Have you found any evidence to the contrary?
Thank you, again!
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