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Post by hermin1 on Jan 27, 2012 15:22:46 GMT -5
I believe that Last man may be mentioned in "through Dakota Eyes".
I tried to open those two pdf images 001 and last Man O02, on my other computer and they did open.the First computer was running Vista and had Adobe Reader version 10.
this computer I am on now runs XP Home Ed. and has Adobe Reader 8.0
go figure.
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Post by madrock on Jan 27, 2012 16:56:57 GMT -5
I believe that Last man may be mentioned in "through Dakota Eyes". I tried to open those two pdf images 001 and last Man O02, on my other computer and they did open.the First computer was running Vista and had Adobe Reader version 10. this computer I am on now runs XP Home Ed. and has Adobe Reader 8.0 go figure. Glad you got the downloads. I have the book Through Dakota Eyes and Last Man is not listed in the index. I just seen at Mike Denny's site where you had posted that handwritten genealogy in 2009. Must have been where I downloaded from and it wasn't someone who sent it to me. |
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Post by mink on Jan 28, 2012 13:29:47 GMT -5
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Post by hermin1 on Jan 28, 2012 15:26:50 GMT -5
madrock: my mistake. I know I have seen reference to him in one of the references i have, and my photographic memory faled me. i am so sorry.
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Post by madrock on Jan 29, 2012 7:30:39 GMT -5
"We had been on a visit with Mr. Reed to see Wah-pa-sha, Wah-kon-de-otah and Mock-ah-pe-ah-ket-ah-pah, the head chiefs of the band on Wah-pa-sha Prairie, ..." I'm sending this to a James Reed ancestor/researcher who is not subscribed to this board to see if she has other names for the two chiefs, Wah-kon-de-otah and Mock-ah-pe-ah-ket-ah-pah. |
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Post by hermin1 on Jan 29, 2012 12:34:59 GMT -5
Wakandiota ( many lightnings) and mockahpeaketapa apparently are written as they were pronounced, I believe. Mockpeahketapa, respelled i think is mahpiyakitapa, or mahpiyaketapa. mahpiya means cloud, but i don't know the meaning of the rest of it.
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Post by mink on Jan 29, 2012 13:07:05 GMT -5
I posted the passage earlier in this thread--Mock-ah-pe-ah-ket-ah-pah and Winona had a daughter, "Witch-e-ain", who married a man named Tom Holmes. I do not know if they had any offspring. It also stated that Witch-e-ain had a "half-blood Winnebago" brother named Cho-ne-mon-e-kah "Green Walk". Are the names of the girl and her brother Winnebago or not? I know very little of the native languages.
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Post by mink on Jan 29, 2012 13:18:33 GMT -5
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Post by madrock on Jan 29, 2012 13:58:54 GMT -5
Wakandiota ( many lightnings) and mockpeaketapa apparently are written as they were pronounced, I believe. Mockahpeahketapa, respelled i think is mahpiyakitapa, or mahpiyaketapa. mahpiya means cloud, but i don't know the meaning of the rest of it. Thanks. I was hoping that one of the names translated in English to "Last Man" another supposed but undocumented child of Wapasha I. Dang. Well, I will keep looking for another "Last Man" clue. Without documentation, I do not want to keep him on The Wapasha Dynasty website as marrying one of Wapasha I's daughters. I wonder what kind of "cloud" the adjective "kitapa" or "ketapa" is describing. My English-Dakota dictionary has several forms of Mahpiya but not this one. Later . . . . |
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Post by madrock on Jan 29, 2012 14:07:44 GMT -5
I posted the passage earlier in this thread--Mock-ah-pe-ah-ket-ah-pah and Winona had a daughter, "Witch-e-ain", who married a man named Tom Holmes. I do not know if they had any offspring. It also stated that Witch-e-ain had a "half-blood Winnebago" brother named Cho-ne-mon-e-kah "Green Walk". Are the names of the girl and her brother Winnebago or not? I know very little of the native languages. I would not really know. They do have a sound style (or whatever it would be called) to some language other than Dakota. Both Nations lived close by and without doubt had many many more marriages between them that are even recorded. But if Mock-ah-pe-ah-ket-ah-pah translates to "  Cloud" in Dakota and Winona is Dakota for first born daughter, the girl and boy couldn't be Winnebago, I would think. IMHO, of course. |
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Post by hermin1 on Jan 29, 2012 14:15:35 GMT -5
mad rock: all i could find for Kitapa was to break it up into syllables: Ki can mean of, or to or for. tapa: deer's head, or a ball.
i wonder: does this make sense :a ball of(or) cloud? In dakota you translate a name from right to left
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Post by madrock on Jan 29, 2012 14:35:04 GMT -5
mad rock: all i could find for Kitapa was to break it up into syllables: Ki can mean of, or to or for. tapa: deer's head, or a ball. i wonder: does this make sense :a ball of(or) cloud? In dakota you translate a name from right to left I think "kitapa" in whole must have a meaning of its own. I have Dakota adjectives for thick, black, blue, long, and broken. It wouldn't be big (tanka) but could be a color or time of day or season. Someone will come up with it! |
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Post by hermin1 on Jan 29, 2012 14:36:36 GMT -5
According to diedrich's tree , Wapahasha II married first,a Ho-chunk or Winnebago woman.
Mahpiyaakitcita or John Hoffman was part Winnebago(his mother. question is, which of his children were from the winnebago woman, and which were from his second wife?
Diedrich either couldn't determine this or he didn't know.Several of us have written to thim sending him documentation to fill in gaps , and correct errors he made in his trree for Old Bets and her family. he failed to put them in his revised edition.
I also get reminded that a lot of the information has been gotten from non-Indian authors of references on the Dakota, Mdewakantons or Sioux .and the errors have been propagated from those who have used the previous author's as references.
I also don't trust some of the information from the Minnesota Historical Society,either.
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Post by mink on Jan 29, 2012 15:34:32 GMT -5
I posted the passage earlier in this thread--Mock-ah-pe-ah-ket-ah-pah and Winona had a daughter, "Witch-e-ain", who married a man named Tom Holmes. I do not know if they had any offspring. It also stated that Witch-e-ain had a "half-blood Winnebago" brother named Cho-ne-mon-e-kah "Green Walk". Are the names of the girl and her brother Winnebago or not? I know very little of the native languages. I would not really know. They do have a sound style (or whatever it would be called) to some language other than Dakota. Both Nations lived close by and without doubt had many many more marriages between them that are even recorded. But if Mock-ah-pe-ah-ket-ah-pah translates to " Cloud" in Dakota and Winona is Dakota for first born daughter, the girl and boy couldn't be Winnebago, I would think. IMHO, of course. I guess that's true. Scroll down here for an opinion that "Witch-e-ain" is Dakota: hotcakencyclopedia.com/ho.HillsOfLaCrosse.html#anchor0314096 |
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Post by mink on Jan 29, 2012 15:46:50 GMT -5
From: hotcakencyclopedia.com/ho.HillsOfLaCrosse.html“This story is shared by both the Dakota and the Hoèàgara. The Dakota give the background of this story. Witcheain, the daughter of Waubasha, a chief among the Dakota, was infatuated with the warrior Chaska. Chaska attempted to flee her affections, and was given asylum among the Hoèàgara. The warriors of Remnechee's, Chaska's father, and Wabasha met to fight the issue out, when through the magical power of the chief priest, whom Witcheain had enlisted, a terrible explosion was caused that cast a large region of Remnechee's land far downstream on the Mississippi. Soon Witcheain with a band of warriors arrived in the Hoèàk village. “ Chaska, for the time being, at least, gave up his dream of marital reformation, and took Witcheain as wife, and for some time after, the Wah-pa-sha [Wapaúa] band continued to be known as the Ki-yuk-sah band of Sioux, or those who disregarded relationship, as contrary to all customs of the Dahkotahs, they married their cousins. Commentary. "Ãaské" — this is a Dakota birth order name for the first born male Hinøga" — a birth order name for the first born daughter. Its equivalent in Dakota is Winona. Huniga seems to be a Winnebago name. This account--how fancifull I do not know--has Witch-e-ain being the daughter of Wapasha! Well...she loved Chaska--and whose contemporary was he? Of which of the Wapashas? |
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Post by mink on Jan 29, 2012 15:48:48 GMT -5
That didn't copy well. "Chaska" is the Dakota name for the first born male. "Huniga" is the Winnebago equivalent of "Winona".
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Post by mink on Jan 29, 2012 17:40:20 GMT -5
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Post by hermin1 on Jan 29, 2012 17:41:12 GMT -5
diedrich wrote that Last Man's Indian name was Euhahkaakow.
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Post by mink on Jan 29, 2012 18:57:02 GMT -5
Well, this warrior "Chaska" with whom Witch-e-ain was enamored had to be a contemporary of one of the latter Wapashas. Because Witch-e-ain married Thomas Holmes, who actually owned the property on which now stands the town of Chaska, Minnesota! Wiki says:
"In 1851, the Treaty of Traverse des Sioux officially opened Little Rapids, as Chaska was then known, to settlement. Soon after, speculators moved into the new territory. Among the earliest was Thomas Andrew Holmes who, in August 1851, claimed a 20-acre (81,000 m2) clearing as the Chaska townsite.
The name "Chaska" is derived from a Dakota word often given as a name to the first born male child. Records show that David L. Fuller purchased the "Shaska" townsite from Holmes in 1852. In 1857, the townsite was platted by the Shaska Company. In the same year, construction began on the original Carver County Courthouse located where the post office and KleinBank now stand in downtown Chaska. Chaska was incorporated as a village in 1871 and, by special legislative charter, as a city in 1891."
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Post by mink on Jan 29, 2012 19:16:29 GMT -5
"The History of Goodhue County" www.archive.org/stream/historyofgoodhue00curt/historyofgoodhue00curt_djvu.txtreally has a lot to say regarding the truth behind the legend. Here are some excerpts: "La Blanc says, in "Bunnell's History of Winona County": "Wah-cou-ta was left at his newly-selected camp-ground at Kaposia, while an older chief, afterward called Rem-na-chee, from the place where he settled, "went on down to the site of the modern city of Red Wing..." "...until another chief, who might be styled the first of the name of Wah-pa-sha or his progenitor, drew attention to the efficiency of some of the warriors who could not complete the trail of the sun dance and bear dance and had been compelled to assume the garb and occu- pation of women, as was the custom among the Sioux. He also referred to the increasing number of skeletons they were com- pelled to place in their ossuaries on Barn and other bluffs in the neighborhood and ended by declaring that new alliances should be made with more vigorous tribes, and the customs of other In- dians, now extinct, should be strictly enforced. It so happened that one of his own daughters was in ex- pectation of an alliance with Chaska, a brave of great repute, eldest son of a chief, [which was this Rem-na-che, really a name of a place as I saw well-explained on another site]..." |
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Cloud" in Dakota and Winona is Dakota for first born daughter, the girl and boy couldn't be Winnebago, I would think. IMHO, of course.