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Post by redbrother on Dec 2, 2006 16:22:41 GMT -5
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Post by mdenney on Dec 2, 2006 23:24:44 GMT -5
well if a bunch of Dakotas are rejected as members they could just start their own tribe!
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Post by redbrother on Dec 3, 2006 22:28:05 GMT -5
well if a bunch of Dakotas are rejected as members they could just start their own tribe! hm, how do you feel about that?
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Post by hermin1 on Dec 4, 2006 1:00:40 GMT -5
Please correct me if I am wrong, but isna't that what Buttes is trying to do with those Lineal descendents on her list?
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Post by redbrother on Dec 4, 2006 8:04:37 GMT -5
Please correct me if I am wrong, but isna't that what Buttes is trying to do with those Lineal descendents on her list? It's really hard to tell what anyone is trying to do anymore. Apparently we all don't know who we are really talking to on these boards and it could be anyone! For me, the entire plot has thickened and trust is a real issue for me. Even on this board. This is the point I make with this article and what I said, 'the death of us all'. There were agents years ago and there are agents today. Indians killing Indians. No one wins and winning this game'........I'm not so sure about.
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Post by highashell on Dec 5, 2006 13:12:56 GMT -5
Please correct me if I am wrong, but isna't that what Buttes is trying to do with those Lineal descendents on her list? think its more like restoring their identity the communities have been using the mdewakanton identity for their own benefit
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rose
Junior Member
Posts: 13
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Post by rose on Dec 5, 2006 14:06:22 GMT -5
red brother, i think you hit the nail on the head, and hermin1 bravo to you too
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rose
Junior Member
Posts: 13
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Post by rose on Dec 5, 2006 14:08:38 GMT -5
red brother, i think you hit the nail on the head, and hermin1 bravo to you too
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Post by mdenney on Dec 5, 2006 22:30:22 GMT -5
As long some thing is done and everyone is happy in the end...that is the goal that we all are working on as far as know...any stated gesture that is given is stupendous. I say unto you REJECT NO ONE AND FEAR NOT YOUR DESTINY.
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Post by redbrother on Dec 5, 2006 23:57:19 GMT -5
I think the only thing I want to leave you all with is a thought. Put the materilism to the side for a while and ask yourselves how does you soul feel about what might come? I know some of you really need help with money and I don't blame you for that. But can ask, can you become someone else and still maintain honesty within yourselves? Can you avoid losing yourself in falling to greed? Do you see what I'm saying? Can you see what has happened to the others, who have benefitted and the one's who are automatically on the list's now, waiting for the final decisions, what they have started to become? There are some really great Indians out there, rich and poor. Do you think you can be one of those people, one of those human beings, without ever losing your soul in all of this? I wanted to bring it up, because I don't see much soul searching here.
That's all I want to say to all of you Dakota's, you American Indians. It is my wish that the Creator look upon us all and help us to see. In light of the good people I have talked to from all over and the people who I have somehow treaded over your path or even lost contact, I have no ill will towards any of you. I believe that Indian Country needs to come together and be one Nation, helping each other out. Would I feel this way, if I' were to benefit in a big way from what we are doing? I would very much like to think so and hope I can prove that one day. I hope you folks can do the same.
My best.
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Post by mdenney on Dec 6, 2006 0:12:16 GMT -5
spiritual concepts with me are fine...I knew my place before this and it won't change me. I may have a big house and nice things, but that is not the answer to my problems or will it ever be. It is just a part of the good life and nothing more!
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Post by mdenney on Dec 6, 2006 0:40:31 GMT -5
Myself have agreed to help those that I see and know are trying to make it, if they would need a little helping hand then I would give them a blessing if that be what the case is...I myself was struggling and man that was difficult...but like I said I made a promise to help a struggling family that may be lacking a thing or two to help them along...this is what I am planning on doing if I am a GOLD MEMBER...for example: Family of 5 may need an upgrade in clothes...so I would give them each a set amount to shop for some clothes! Maybe they have a Rez car...well, we can't have that for future tribal leaders now can we, or maybe I just helped our next congress leader?? Maybe they live in a shack?? We can't have this now can we? So I would, if my status is GOLD MEMBER! would get this struggling family a nice start out home...depending on my funds...non the less they will be very thankful I existed! This is the value that I have...imagine that your bummed out, your broke, not a dime in the pocket! Wondering how to get a pack of smokes or a half box of roman noodles, or maybe you are short on rent, then I pop up out of no where...telling you today is your lucky day friend. This would make anyones day...
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Post by tamara on Dec 6, 2006 12:07:31 GMT -5
excellent post redbrother, i have thought about such things all along. i recall my aunts looking at some of the things said and feeling doubt that they wished to be a part of this. I think the things that drive them go back identity and an inability to ignore their ancestors history and lineage.[a href="http://[del:tamara]"]http://[del:tamara][/a]
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Post by tamara on Dec 6, 2006 12:14:42 GMT -5
excellent post redbrother, i have thought about such things all along. i recall my aunts looking at some of the things said and feeling doubt that they wished to be a part of this. I think the things that drive them go back identity and an inability to ignore their ancestors history and lineage.
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Post by wazi on Dec 7, 2006 15:11:38 GMT -5
red brother that was very deep deep thinking...i think about all of this alot. i wonder what it all means. i get frustrated with those who are blinded by greed. in my own family i have people impatient for the $$$. i feel sad when their tone is very disrepectful of our ancestors.
wazi
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Post by jazzdog on Dec 8, 2006 2:36:40 GMT -5
Wazi and Redbrother
It is me again with thoughts and perceptions that may or may not be useful......but here I go again.
There are definite competing interests in this overall process, as I see it. There is the historical aspect, alone, which is designed to learn, acclimate, modify, enhance or quite possibly change the somewhat murky and ruggedly disrespectful written history that has been previously recorded concerning our anscestors. For some, the effort to discover, reveal and/or correct, history, is the overriding factor in this historical process. For some, it is the mere pleasure and happiness to come to know and converse with long lost relatives or relatives that have not been long lost, but just out of touch, that creates a window of present conversation on family links that is enjoyable to people seeking that present and knowledgable connection with others in the same boat that maybe have not spoken to or seen each other but for emergency medical situations or funerals. I have always heard the old saying spoken, "Bring me flowers while I am alive, and not just after I am dead", which means alot toward celebrating and acknowledging the worth of our lives individually while we can all look into each other lives in this earthly realm as present lives, and not passing on souls only. There is definite wisdom in that concept in that it allows each of us to appreciate each other and recognize the gift of life while we can cherish the same in our voices, our gestures, our smiles, our nods, our laughter, and our hugs.
For some, the process is merely for material gain....that is not obviously wrong. However, from the point of view of many of us, the people that are in this catagory (material gain only), may seek to elevate that aspect over the other aspects. This is where the danger occurs to the true discovery of the true history. As long as those individuals that are in the process merely for their own material gain, do not seek or suceed in dominating the direction of the great goal, then all factions can theoretically, achieve their own goals as long as the greed factor does not or is not allowed to dominate or dictate the overall effort. For, those that merely seek material gain, cannot unilaterally achieve that goal without the idealist historian faction that is so avid in seeking the truth of the past. Nor can our unified efforts to benefit all rightfully deserving lineal descendants, survive, if the greed factor of the material gain faction, persuade or dissuade the recordkeepers from providing all of the necessary historical documentation that is needed to reach the goal of exposing the whole truth of the history of the events and our collective lineal descendancy as a whole. It is absolutely destructive to the process if greed is allowed to carry the day in the collective process. We all need to take a step back and think about which line of thought we all belong. Maybe we belong in more than one faction. But if we differ in belief and direction as to what the ultimate goal of the process is, we really need to come together in those factions to satisfy the needs of the whole, and not the few. Do not buy into the basic governmental concept of divide and conquer.......there is a reason why that concept is so popular.......it is because it works. My advice is that all of us realize that now, and recognize that we have people who have these varying goals, but we MUST be unified in the common process for ANY of us to achieve what each of us believe to be the ultimate goal. Patience, diligence, assertiveness, understanding, passion, feeling, realization, assistance, intellect, openness, cooperation, sharing, luck, perservance and human wherewithall, is what we need to achieve the goal. The goal is what you want the goal to be.
I am sorry, this is just the way that I see things developing through what I know and hear.
Jazzdog
PS: Help each other to help each other, please.
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Post by tamara on Dec 8, 2006 11:31:24 GMT -5
Do not buy into the basic governmental concept of divide and conquer.......there is a reason why that concept is so popular.......it is because it works. My advice is that all of us realize that now, and recognize that we have people who have these varying goals, but we MUST be unified in the common process for ANY of us to achieve what each of us believe to be the ultimate goal. Patience, diligence, assertiveness, understanding, passion, feeling, realization, assistance, intellect, openness, cooperation, sharing, luck, perservance and human wherewithall, is what we need to achieve the goal. The goal is what you want the goal to be.
I really like this part Jazzdog.
I think that this board is made up of people that are searching and giving beyond the scope of the lawsuit. Often it is this type of searcher that became frustrated with the narrow view taken in the original complaint. It is hard to be united where one is not wanted, in which case one can only do what they can. This world has been unfair to many and in the native history of things especially. It seems to make sense that, if it appears that a wrong might be made right for the Dakota, most people would desire to be a part of it. Personally, I do not wish harm on the communities or wish to speak negatively of them in any way. I believe the wrong needs to be righted by the government and them alone. I often think of Angela C Wilsons writing and her criticism of the lawsuit and its fight for a few and not the return of ancestral homeland of the Dakota. In reading old newspapers from the 1800's it is clear that the desire to obtain the "good" lands was a driving force in much of this. I read with sadness how there was a written demand to force the Sisseton surrounding community to rally to force the "throwing open" of the reservation lands. I read with sadness the anger against Whipple for him coming to the reservations and then the headman not wishing to sign what ever agreement was being forced on them. I read with sadness how clearly the best way to get what was wanted in a hidden type of warfare for land was to "starve them out". I read with sadness and pride how in a treaty scenario, no matter what tactic used, Mr John Grass would not submit to their wishes, rose and lead the people away. I can only imagine how the possibility to obtain the lands around the river, green and beautiful in the hands of the indian people in 1851 bothered the wannabe settlers. the opportunity arose in 1862 and no one with indian blood was spared.
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Post by tamara on Dec 8, 2006 11:35:37 GMT -5
The clippings are from Ancestry.com and the newspaper collection. I find myself reading such things while searching for something else. I have long been fascinated by John Grass and his name comes up in everything often. I saw how a man with his name was applying for citizenship in 1917 and was one of few who obtained it.
Tamara
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Post by wazi on Dec 8, 2006 13:24:46 GMT -5
Jazzdog thank you for ur words...I apologize if my words confused you. Everything you have said is what I believe. My posting was in comment of frustration. In my research I have found many fascinating things about who I am and where I come from. I along with a few other relatives have spent endless about of resources on searching our family tree. It is all a process of learning. I am sad when relatives call and ask about payment or that they are gonna do this or that with their money. And never in any of their breath do they say, wow this is all made possible because of our grandma or grandpa. It appears that the culture of poverty has gripped my family so much, that they have become obsessed with the $$$. And we haven't even heard from the judge if there is gonna be $$$ involved. Would of the Judge rules, all the lineal descendants are eligible to enroll at any of the three communities and doesn't give $$$. Our would if the $$$ after attorney fees and taxes comes out to be 100.00 per person. I think there will be great disappointment by many. When in reality we should keep rejoicing because we have found our past which can help us make a better path for our children.
wazi
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Post by jazzdog on Dec 9, 2006 1:54:24 GMT -5
wazi
I intended nothing in a negative sense from your earlier post. It just struck me that when we can we need to enunciate what our honest beliefs may be. I always knew from your continuous comments that you and I, and many, believe in many of the same notions as it pertains to the discovery of the old past and the new beginnings. It is through minds and hearts like yourself that the real work can be accomplished. I know and accept that many of our relatives are desperate for hope.....hope can be expressed in many ways and in many terms. We have all been guilty at one time or another, being members of any Native American tribe or group of Indians, of expecting our government to do what is right in the sense of fulfilling the past and present promises to take care of things that were legitimately promised. I cannot blame individuals to slip into that mentality of waiting for a payout for past wrongs.....however, as we have all experienced, the rumours fly much more quickly than the true facts on those types of matters. This is not any different. We would be serving our relatives and contacts more true, if we can instill the concept of patience and realty-based thinking. In doing that, we can hopefully still inspire those that may have or develop open minds about the process, to let them know that every individual is important in the grand link of life back to the very anscestors that we are trying to connect with, historically and spiritually. We must understand the importance of believing in each other to achieve our collective goals. Please do not misunderstand my comments about those of us that see compensation for past wrongs as the most important goal......I only wanted to stress that those of us who do not place that material gain at the top of our list, continue to work to try to open minds and enthusiam to help others know that this opportunity is so rich for the prospect of unity. The material gain aspect is again one of those things that our culture has been taught through the years as a matter of living and surviving in this society. We are all creatures of the economic times, but we also should be mindful of our own past and present identities despite the potential of possible material gain. Sometimes the hardest decisions are made between the issues of compensation versus truthful recognition. It is always optimal if you can achieve both at the same time, but it is not always the way it works out. Since this important case is about the wrongs committed by the US government, and not the communities, one can look at a real culprit in the continuous wrongful conduct over the years as it pertains to the deprivations that our anscestors were forced to suffer and endure. Working together, despite our personal motivations on an outcome, is the truest way to achieve a just and rightful outcome.
thanks
Jazzdog
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