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Post by wazi on Mar 9, 2006 12:25:53 GMT -5
It is true Sara about unktomiska. He was Taoyateduta's brother. However, what I have read about him during the outbreak was that he did his best to not participate and left his brother to surrender. White Spider was imprisioned sent to Santee and then left to Flandreau. He later returns to Minnesota. There are many who followed this route. I do agree that they got homesick and went home. Many of the elder dakota did this, with many of the young dakota staying behind to do their best to make a new life. Some families refused to talk about Minnesota after they left.
I have really enjoyed the dialogue here on this subject.
wazi
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Post by tamara on Mar 9, 2006 12:42:38 GMT -5
Sara, that amuses me to no end! I'll bet he would never has expected to meet someone like you. I sent him family information that unfortanetly does not jive with another book he wrote. Not on the big things, just on dates and family relationships etc. He did state that the stood by the basics of his books, and did not dispute my information, for that I like him. I also appreciate someone caring enough about our own heros and history to write about them. I think this conversation shows how much we should begin to write our own histories and furthers our own confidence in our own knowledge, oral histories and record keeping. In other words, when will you be ready to look for a publisher, Sara?!
I dont wish my words about the term loyalty to take away from the many many great things that people like John Wakeman did. I dont think that could be disputed. I also dont wish to imply that I think less of those that were tried in the "kangaroo court" and convicted or imprisoned. In fact in one recent reading it is said that there were many who were wrongly convicted. One elderly man only for having been the crier for the soldiers lodge and nothing more. many of those that did the actual killings fled and did not suffer like those that remained. One ancestor of my family who was the daughter of Mrs Robertson, a g/grandaughter of Wabasha, saw her husband murdered in 1862. I can only imagine she felt that the person who did so, should be accountable for their actions. There are so many angles of the events of 1862 to consider and explore.
Tamara
I cant tell how much I appreciate the amount of knowledge on this part of history that is found here with all of you fine people.
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Post by wazi on Mar 9, 2006 15:49:09 GMT -5
Tamara,
I thank you for your thoughtful words and tone. It is really hard to research all this pain. John Wakeman or Unktomiska would be my great great great grandfather as he is the brother to Taoyateduta. There are many like him who may have had a part in the uprising and are on the so called list of loyalists. again thank you for sharing.
wazi
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Post by santee1961 on Mar 9, 2006 17:00:37 GMT -5
Hey Wait A Miunte!!! Come on moderators. It appears to me that Sara has a very VALID HISTORICALLY ACCURATE GRIP on the situation. I would like to have the same question answered that she posted. So far after several conversations with atty's, meetings, etc. no one has been able to answers any of the above questions. There just is several "spins" put on our history that do not correlate wit I have the family history I have grown up with. If you can't tell I myself am getting kind've tired of being told that my elders were wrong in saying that we are Mdewankaton Santee. I would just like to say a great big "THANK YOU" to Sara, Jackie and everyone else who has ever posted anything on this site which has provided us with the wealth of information and substantiated the oral and at times, written history that has been passed down by our Santee ancestors.
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Post by santee1961 on Mar 9, 2006 17:17:33 GMT -5
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention as I was "venting" that when I have asked for the "Loyalist List" that it has never been produced. If it can be produced and authenticated than we are only left to blieve that it may indeed just could have been "made up"!!!
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Post by sara on Mar 9, 2006 17:40:46 GMT -5
Thank-you Santee1961  |
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Post by santee1961 on Mar 9, 2006 20:25:10 GMT -5
Any time. I value the history that I was told by my family. I am concerned that it appears some of that history is attempted to be rewritten. I think is a dishonor to our elders as they had to live it.
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Post by wazi on Mar 9, 2006 22:05:16 GMT -5
Sorry Santee1961 I am unable to produce a list of so called loyalist either. I agree that Sara has a point....who has the answer I don't know. All the sharing that we have done on this forum and researching through files I have seen many lists of names, don't recall a full blood loyalist list.  . Good luck with your quest. wazi |
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Post by tokakte on Mar 10, 2006 11:14:18 GMT -5
Tamara--
I have portions of "Through Dakota Eyes", but not the whole book. I'm trying to get a copy.
Speaking to another issue: The Goverment at times makes what appear to be arbitrary decisions in administering the Indian Business. For example, there are poeple enrolled as 4/4 who were not, but the Goverment felt it had to draw a line under the record at some point and say, "From this time on, everyone on this roll is 4/4!" For time out of mind, our ancestors intermarried...or mixed, with other tribes, and later, with Europeans; so I suspect there were few biological full bloods by the time tribal rolls were compiled. Who is loyalist and who is not is similar to the full blood question. At some point, and there is plenty of arguement on which point it is, the goverment made a call. I'm not saying it was the right one, but it was a call nonetheless. Was the correct point the 1886 role? The McLaughlin roll? The Hinton report? I haven't a clue. We don't even know if the list Barbara is compiling will stand up in court. But remember, the Gov't would score a major victory in the lawsuit if they could indict the accuracy of the LD list the Erick and Co. are presenting. I know that all the professional geneologists in MPLS area were hired by one of the three communities..I suspect it was Shakopee, when the scramble for certification started. I tried to hire three of them and struck out on all of them because they were already working for the other side.
We know that deserving people may be excluded from the list, and some whose ancestors just happened to be in the right place at the right time will be included. But I hope we can avoid letting this issue divide us..us being the regular participants of this site. I feel a bond with all of you, and I think you all deserve to be recognized as my brothers and sisters.
Tokakte
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Post by tamara on Mar 10, 2006 11:37:34 GMT -5
Thank you so much for sharing your perspective on that, very thoughtful. I do agree in not letting it divide any of us. Along the lines of blood quantum, dont you find it amusing that in many census' information listing blood. Everyone is 5/8th? I come from known mixed-blood families and on both sides everyone is 5/8ths. Must have been a reason. It would be my hopes that the success of this lawsuit will open the door to examine other land issues.
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Post by mdenney on Mar 10, 2006 13:37:15 GMT -5
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention as I was "venting" that when I have asked for the "Loyalist List" that it has never been produced. If it can be produced and authenticated than we are only left to blieve that it may indeed just could have been "made up"!!! There is one but the GOV won't let us have it that is like saying the Iraq people, we will give you sadam back if you let us take your oil...bla bla my name is bush and I am a poser bla bla bla. Ladys and gents, flipping the coin up in the air does not produce wealth, but if you keep it in your pocket your grand children may need candy later...EEhhhhhummmm! lol...lo...l.! |
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Post by tamara on Mar 11, 2006 11:30:35 GMT -5
I found the 1862 census December and I think it is of full-blood and half-breeds alike at Ft Snelling.
December 1. 1862 Census Report of the commisoner US office of Indian Affairs for the Year 1863 Washinton :Government Printing Office, 1864.
this is from the book The Dakota Internment at Ft Snelling by Corinne L Monjeau-Marz
it contains the complete list of indian names. I will scan if anyone needs me to. TTordsen@aol.com
Tamara
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Post by wazi on Mar 12, 2006 1:14:42 GMT -5
Tamara,
I sure would appreciate a copy.
wazi
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Post by gcochran on Mar 12, 2006 5:51:25 GMT -5
Tamara,
I would sure like a copy also.
gcochran
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Post by sara on Mar 12, 2006 10:04:59 GMT -5
This is a prisoner list, Dec 1862. Over 1000. They were not free to leave. I believe there were a few other Indians from other tibes as well, it was kind of like Guantanamo Bay is now, or the Japanese US citizen Internment Camps in 1941-1944.
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Post by tamara on Mar 13, 2006 0:16:02 GMT -5
Gchocran
I need your email address if you wish me to send the list to you. Send it to me at TTordsen@aol.com.
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Post by sara on Mar 13, 2006 6:13:47 GMT -5
Hi Tamara,
I recieved the files you sent by email. I do have the lists.
It seems like that is the one everyone had in the begining before finding all the other lists.
I don't think I had the March 17th 1863 lists of men giving up wives. Thank-you,Sara
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Post by jrandjb on Apr 26, 2006 15:45:47 GMT -5
I found the 1862 census December and I think it is of full-blood and half-breeds alike at Ft Snelling. December 1. 1862 Census Report of the commisoner US office of Indian Affairs for the Year 1863 Washinton :Government Printing Office, 1864. this is from the book The Dakota Internment at Ft Snelling by Corinne L Monjeau-Marz it contains the complete list of indian names. I will scan if anyone needs me to. TTordsen@aol.com Tamara I would like a copy. send to jrandjb@yahoo.com THANKS!!! |
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Post by tamara on Apr 26, 2006 17:30:05 GMT -5
Sent to your email
Sara, you mentioned a list of prisoners. is this something you have transcribed or can it be accessed online?
Tamara
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Post by Whirlwind In The House on Apr 26, 2006 19:27:57 GMT -5
As A Direct Descendant of Big Eagle I have loyalties to my people, my family and my ancestors for the record to be set straight for once and for all. My Gr gr Grandfather received a pardon and was ultimately sent to Davenport. And from the letters he wrote from there. He expressed a great deal of concern for his family and for the generations yet to come. I share these very concerns to this day... I am Connie Jean Big Eagle Blunt So Dak.
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thank you for allowing me access to this site.