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Post by tamara on Jun 7, 2006 13:30:34 GMT -5
I had promised my Grandfather that I would try to find all that I could that pertains to the lands given to John Buffalo Keeble or Wamnuha. It was his feelings that there were things that happened with it that were incorrect, so much had been talked about as a young boy, he wished to undertand it better. Ihnduriciwin and her sisters are also the subject of another mystery that related to the Dakota Uprising. I have an old photograph my grandfather gave me that includes the sons of John Buffalo Keeble, and two of them are not included as his blood sons. Their families have many questions and we are trying to sort these things out. Is it possible to get a copy of the probate you mention? I would greatly appreciate it. Ihnduriciwin is also the ancestor of Mr Kitto's family. Their parents, Ihnduriciwin, Lizzie or Onatanmaniwin, simon cekpa, etc are Mazapeta and Bogagawin.
I will post the Indpaduta information under that thread
Tamara
PS If you are able to share, I have a fax number available as well if it is easier. If you are unable to, I understand and know how difficult it is to get to all requests for information.
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Post by arduinna on Jun 7, 2006 14:03:48 GMT -5
I don't know if this helps, but I found the following in the family tree of Ihduricewin: Her first spouse was Catkakinjin(d. bef. 1862). they had 2children: a boy-died in infancy,before allotments. Cecelia Rondall- d. Nov. 11,1909 her spouse: Felix F. Rondall children: Mary L. Rondall(now Campbell) Louisa-died Age 6 in 1890 Julia M. Rondall(now Owens) Susan Rondall-died 1889 age 1 yr Esther R. Rondall(now Rabeau) Guy K. Rondall-died 1895, Age 2 yrs. Phoebe T. rondall-died Apr. 31,1912, Age 17 Winfield Scott Rondall Ella Rondall Agnes Rondall-died July 5,1913 , Age 8 yrs. Hi everybody Now my confusion is perfect. Was Francois Rondell married to a Cecelia, as well as his son Felix? This might give clarification on the John Rondell question, who supposedly was a son of Francois Rondell and a brother to Felix. Thanks! arduinna |
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Post by bgwahinkpe on Jun 7, 2006 17:31:54 GMT -5
To anyone: My friend says that the John Rondell we are talking about is an episcopal minister at St. Philips, White Swan Community and he was married to Mary Goulet and Mary was also married to John Oconnor. They has two children. What we want to find out is who Mary's parents are. Can anyone help?
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Post by arduinna on Jun 7, 2006 18:07:45 GMT -5
Mary (Goulet) Rondell: Mother: Maggie Goulet Keith (Biological) Father: not yet known, could be Thomas Wildcat Alford.  Maggie was engaged to Thomas Wildcat Alford, an Absentee-Shawnee graduate and prominent American Indian writer and reformer. Maggie Goulet married Edgar Keith, a white missionary, in 1884, after her time at Hampton Indian School. That's all we have right now. arduinna |
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Post by Curtis Kitto "MIKE" on Jun 7, 2006 18:51:37 GMT -5
Arduinna,
Pidamiya OTA!
Next question: What happened to his brother? Kayapi has it that he remained Wasicu.
One of the first white men, if not THE first man, known to be in the Waubay area, is Francois Rondell. he was born in 1814 at Marseille, France. he and his BROTHER, (emphasis added) orphans, were raised and employed by their uncle in the shipping business."
I am really finding the information fasinating and alot of new relatives.
MIKE
MIKE
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Post by Curtis Kitto "MIKE" on Jun 7, 2006 18:54:23 GMT -5
Julia Madeline Rondelle Owens is my beautiful Grandmother. I remember very clearly her long black hair and how she would give me a dime to spend at the grocery store located at the "South End" of Pickerel Lake.
Thank you for the opportunity to remember Grandmother Owens.
MIKE
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Post by tamara on Jun 7, 2006 20:10:31 GMT -5
The only John Rondell I know shows in 1900 Koscuisko township
Felix Rondell age 43
Cecelia age 40
John 14
Julia 16
Esther 10
Phoebe 5
Winfield 3
Ella 2
Same township 1910
Felix 54
L??? 2nd wife
White, Alice 45
Benjamin 6
Eunice 3
phoebe 15
Windfield 12
Ella 9
Agnes 6
John 28?
Esther 19
1920
John Rondell age 40
Jennie (my ancestor) 50
mable keeble
helen keeble
wallace keeble
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Post by tamara on Jun 7, 2006 22:05:40 GMT -5
What relation was Daniel Cetanmani to the Mrs Keeble?
Tamara
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Post by arduinna on Jun 7, 2006 23:19:34 GMT -5
I thought this is noteworthy to post here. The name Keeble must have his origins from either the celtic or the sacson people. Both were tribal people. Their naming of people were once similar to the dakota people. like: has-his-own-war-club, or coup stick. it came from the word CUDGEL. From Dictionary.com: cudgel \KUH-juhl\, noun: A short heavy stick used as a weapon; a club. transitive verb: To beat with or as if with a cudgel Etymology: Middle English kuggel, from Old English cycgel; perhaps akin to Middle High German kugele, ball Date: before 12th century : a short heavy club genforum.genealogy.com/keeble/nothing found yet about the relation Daniel Cetanmani - Mrs. Keeble. arduinna |
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Post by arduinna on Jun 8, 2006 1:43:56 GMT -5
ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/sd/census/1860.txtHere is a part of Francois (Francis) Rondell's (Randell - sic) family listed, the lady at the bottom is probably ( ) one of his indian wifes: PAGE FAMILY LNAME FNAME AGE SEX OCCUPATION BIRTHPLACE 112 103 Randell Antoine 14 M Dakota 112 103 Randell Felix 4 M Dakota 112 103 Randell Francis 40 M Farmer France 112 103 Randell Julia 16 F Dakota 112 103 Randell Louisa 8 F Dakota 112 103 Randell Louise 19 F Dakota 112 103 Ras-to-ka 36 F Dakota It might be interesting to check out the original photos of the 1860 census (available online) to veryfy the above, and to see, if other dakota female names with children are listed with Francis. The 'rootsweb' website mentioned above, lists the recorded persons only alphabetically, and not in the whole family context. Page No's and family no's might be an indicator, but not a proof here. That means, on this alphabetical list page, only the individuals with the Randell name are listed together with francis. arduinna
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Post by tamara on Jun 8, 2006 2:04:23 GMT -5
Excellent. It would seem to be them. Would be nice to know more about Felix's siblings. Understandable how he would name his daughter Julia after a sister... Very nice find. I was over in the pembina images www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/sd/census/1860images.html so it made me laugh to see your post. As they say "brilliant minds"! Tamara |
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Post by hermin1 on Jun 8, 2006 2:09:28 GMT -5
I don't know if there is a relationship between them. but here is what Iwas able to figure out via my notes:
Parents of Ihduricewin are Mazapeta and his 2nd spouse Bogagawin.
Ihduricewin weds John Buffalo Kebble and they have a daughter Ida buffalo.
Ida buffalo marries Moses Max, Daniel Cetanmani's grandson by his daughter Mary Max(spouse was John Max)via his first spouse Kiyujujuwin.
Ihduricewin first marries Catkakinajin and they have daughter Cecelia Rondell. Then she marries John Keeble Buffalo Kebble.
The connection is Ida buffalo who would be Cecelia's half sister because they share the same mother, Ihduricewin.
_______
Ihduricewin's siblings were Itewaykewin, Tiiyoptewin,Skawin,Onatanmaniwin,Simon Cekpa, and Henry Wakannahomni(turning Holy). Her half siblings via first spouse of her father were Makohnida(Seeking Hand), and Tiyopamazawin.
The children of John Buffalo Kebble by his second spouse, Onatanmanniwin, which numbered 9 total, would be the half siblings of Cecelia Rondell. and Ida Buffalo Max.
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Post by tamara on Jun 8, 2006 2:11:31 GMT -5
I thought this is noteworthy to post here. The name Keeble must have his origins from either the celtic or the sacson people. Both were tribal people. Their naming of people were once similar to the dakota people. like: has-his-own-war-club, or coup stick. it came from the word CUDGEL. From Dictionary.com: cudgel \KUH-juhl\, noun: A short heavy stick used as a weapon; a club. transitive verb: To beat with or as if with a cudgel Etymology: Middle English kuggel, from Old English cycgel; perhaps akin to Middle High German kugele, ball Date: before 12th century : a short heavy club genforum.genealogy.com/keeble/nothing found yet about the relation Daniel Cetanmani - Mrs. Keeble. arduinna My undestanding is that it was given to them by Missionary Edward Ashley. My great grandfather said in an interview that his father was a lay reader at St James Episcopal Church in Enemy Swim. I have some great pictures of the church. Old ones and new ones. I have walked the cemetary often and learned much from it. My son, in fact, pointed out the headstone of Mr Rondell just last memorial day. |
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Post by hermin1 on Jun 8, 2006 2:16:59 GMT -5
As i posted previously , I gleaned and made notes of the pertinent information from the documents re. Daniel Cetanmani's heirship determination(probate papers). I do not have the
probate or testimonial documents.
I am planning to type up my notes and send a copy to Mr. Kitto, and will send you acopy if you wish.
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Post by arduinna on Jun 8, 2006 2:28:01 GMT -5
Excellent. It would seem to be them. Would be nice to know more about Felix's siblings. Understandable how he would name his daughter Julia after a sister... Very nice find. I was over in the pembina images www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/sd/census/1860images.html so it made me laugh to see your post. As they say "brilliant minds"! Tamara SMILE!!! You Night swarmers: Something for you and the ones interested in John Rondell being Minister at the St. Philips Chapel at White Swan: I'll browsed the dakota church records real quick - due to the late hour, I think I'll quit now and put my poor eyes to sleep. But anyway, Bingo!!!there is JOHN! 1909... I try to post the picture of the pages below. all the best... arduinna |
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Post by arduinna on Jun 8, 2006 2:30:20 GMT -5
I thing I have to figure out first how I upload the picture!!! Do I have to start a new thread? It seems like it. Oh, those computer beanies! arduinna  |
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Post by hermin1 on Jun 8, 2006 2:37:08 GMT -5
You need to consult our computer whiz,Jamie. he can tell you how to do it. Jamie can do almost anything with a computer except make it sit up and beg.
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Post by arduinna on Jun 8, 2006 2:47:51 GMT -5
Great! Thanks... right now my electronic friend makes me foolishly chasing my virtual tail. wooofff wooofff!
If you guys want to, I could e-mail you the picture. Maybe it can be done tomorrow...? I have to figure out the exact location of the church files page anyway, to be able to (re)find it. I have Tamara's e-mail, but not yours, hermin1.
Let me know, whatever is fine with me.
have a good night
later
arduinna
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Post by tamara on Jun 8, 2006 11:26:55 GMT -5
Interesting! Again, perfectly matches the information I have, except I need to look at the Mazapeta paper I have as it did not indicate that Bogagawin was his 2nd wife. Would seem to be reasonable as I found it interesting that Seeking Land would have made his home elsewhere. possibly with his mother's people. does it say her name? Seems I had read Mazapeta's information years ago and again it didnt mention another wife...
I am trying to sort out how the events of 1862 fit into the various families. The photo my grandpa had shows a man named John T Keeble or Tasunkasapa. He is a bit of a mystery as the Crow Creek story seems to differ a bit. I have heard their side of it is that his mother knew she was dying and gave him to her sister "who was a twin". I think they thought that indicated his mother was a twin. My belief is that he was given to Lizzie Keeble or Onatanmaniwin, who was a twin to Simon Cekpa. (Hermin1, thankfully not another Cekpawin!) This must have happened either in Crow Creek or some other location pertaining to the displacement of the people. The other gentleman is Isaac Keeble. I do not see him mentioned in any of the Mazapeta papers or the John Buffalo Keeble papers. He is the father of Sgt Woodrow Keeble who was the focus of much effort to award the Medal of Honor, an incredible story in itself. Quite a warrior and I am proud to call him a relative. -back to the story, I can not find the family ties to Mazapeta or the Keeble family. What would the need to take such an incredible picture in 1890 or so of the sons of john buffalo and include the men John T Keeble and Isaac Keeble... I realize this is not a search for lineage and I am not trying to trace back to the 1886-9 census, I am trying to answer questions my grandfather left me with... I have hoped to contact some of the Crow Creek family, descendants of George Keeble as well.
Tamara
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Post by tamara on Jun 8, 2006 11:31:49 GMT -5
As i posted previously , I gleaned and made notes of the pertinent information from the documents re. Daniel Cetanmani's heirship determination(probate papers). I do not have the probate or testimonial documents. I am planning to type up my notes and send a copy to Mr. Kitto, and will send you acopy if you wish. That would be fantastic, thanks so much. Tamara |
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