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Post by hermin1 on Jul 9, 2006 3:39:03 GMT -5
the problem is, that George and Marypaypaydid not have any childrenof their own. Mary adopted James C. Paypay, and George acknowledged that he was the father of Julia Hiwankawin, later the wife of David Wilson, and mother of Hazen, and Titus Wilson. Although
George's ability to sire a child was questioned, at one of the hearings on his probate, by witnesses who knew him. Other witnesses who had been in prison with George testified that the mother of Hiwankawin had had extramarital relations with numerous men at the Davenport prison.
I stilll haven't been able to find any baptismal or birth record for this Julia, and for James c. Paypay. I did get a biography of Rev. Hinman which mentions that a cyclone hit the Santee Area around 1869 -1870 which destroyed the records and severely damaged the church and mission. Hinman's wife and child were severely injured in that storm. Maybe their records were in with those that were destroyed.
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Post by hermin1 on Jul 9, 2006 3:46:50 GMT -5
I understand now." I see" said the blind man when he picked up his hammer and saw. Just kidding.
the problem with them making this sort of tie in is that,they need to find the baptismal records for Julia Hiwankin Wilson. I suggested to the paypay descendants that they check with the stateof Iowa to see if the birth was recorded there, or even check the county seat in which Davenport is in.
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Post by hermin1 on Jul 9, 2006 3:48:22 GMT -5
the Myrick that was mentioned was the brother of Andrew Myrick., the trader that was killed in the uprising and had his mouth stuffed with grass.
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Post by tamara on Jul 9, 2006 11:25:42 GMT -5
LOL this is the way I heard the same saying "I see, said the blind man to his deaf wife, as he picked up the hammer and saw"
I "hear" you on the Julia thing and am going to give it one more focused try and then put it aside again if I have to... (sigh)
Tamara
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Post by tamara on Jul 9, 2006 11:34:47 GMT -5
interesting.... that george and mary paypay did not have children of their own.
someone posted on another thread that May PayPay's children were the Wilson children and it included Julia Wilson White or Mnihotawin and her brothers... that is the Julia that I am interested in, I have to constantly try to keep them seperated.
this seems "out there" but if they had not children together and Daniel Wilson is the son of Mary but not George and Julia (the other one) is the possible daughter of George but not Mary... they could marry and have children right? ...
I am going to "coffee up" this morning, neglect everything but my grandmother, and see if I can clear my thoughts on this family.
tamara
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Post by sara on Jul 9, 2006 11:58:58 GMT -5
HI, THere are no records in Davenport on the Dakota Prisoners.
I would love a copy of the testimony that says she had many affairs at the Davenport Prison.
Also I recieved a phone call the other night from my Mother-in-law(that is a shock) she said she recieved a call from her cousin saying they had a paper that stated Mary Paypay might be Sam Red Wolf's mother. So far I have heard nothing else.
How many Mary Paypay's are there and how old is the one in MN in 1886? Sam Red Wolf was born about 1853-54.
Thanks, for any help.
Sara
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Post by taz5150nd on Jul 9, 2006 12:17:26 GMT -5
I would also like a copy of that testimony about her affairs.
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Post by taz5150nd on Jul 9, 2006 13:19:13 GMT -5
Abel and Albert are the same person. We have the documents to prove it. I am vague as to the Wilson tie. Can you elaborate for me and help me to understand where everyone is attempting to make the tie so I can hand that in to my friend with the Mormons? you have my email if you'd like to use that...
Thanks Tamara
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Post by hermin1 on Jul 9, 2006 16:14:17 GMT -5
I hardly think that such goings on would be on a prison record.
the testimony was given by witnesses who were with George at the Davenport prison.the woman's husband tried to kill her, andthen committed suicide over this, according to the testimony. They did testify that George was one of the men that visited her during his stay at Davenport prison.
I was thinking that there may be a birth record of some sort at the county courthouse in Scott county,Iowa. The girl was born there in Davenport.
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Post by hermin1 on Jul 9, 2006 16:18:21 GMT -5
Tamara, re that other Julia wilson White I don't think I have anything on her.
but I am guessing that Mary paypay may have been a sister to James c. Paypay's mother Boszawin. does that make sense?
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Post by sara on Jul 9, 2006 17:08:39 GMT -5
THere are no records in Davenport Iowa.
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Post by tamara on Jul 9, 2006 17:11:15 GMT -5
Well, I think that would be a good guess and fits the scenario be see often. Did the sister have an english name?
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Post by taz5150nd on Jul 9, 2006 21:40:03 GMT -5
Thanks hermin1. I agree I am doubtful such things would be on a prison record. but the lead to the birth record is great.
thanks
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Post by hermin1 on Jul 10, 2006 3:15:00 GMT -5
I rechecked my records on the Dumarces. and yes harry Dumarce married annie or anna Redday. she was his third spouse.Her mother was listed as Julia Redday.
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Post by hermin1 on Jul 10, 2006 3:17:11 GMT -5
According to JamesC.'s descendant, her name meant to start something, or starting up.bozawin is on that 1869 Santee Tribal Census.
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Post by bmorin on Jul 10, 2006 13:37:13 GMT -5
We are searching for information on Ptewankannijin(Sacred Standing Buffalo (Cow?) & Tateahnahiyayewin (Coming On Top of a Cloud). These were Anna Hunka Williams, my great-grandmother's parents. Please call 701-351-1461 if you have any information on my grandparents. I am looking for Ptewankannijin's parents names, DOB, DOD, etc., and also Tateahanahiyayewin's parents names, DOB, DOD, and any other records or documents that may help me to find this information. #nosignature#
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Post by lisha818 on Jul 10, 2006 23:52:13 GMT -5
to taz5150...i may be related to your wife and her family. my mother was delima jackson, who was born a cavanaugh. her mother was lillian redday who was the only one of joshua(joe) redday's children born in sisseton. i have probate papers saying that liilian's father was Joshua redday, HIS father was Albert (Abel or Manikiya) Redday, and HIS father was Anpetuxa or Jonah Redday. i found out that Anpetuxa and Red Iron (chief of sissetons) were brothers along with another brother called walking Iron?? this was found in a book about sisseton wahpeton history, that i got from the nicollett tower interpretive center in sisseton. I don't know that Kangiduta was a brother, though i doubt it. Kangiduta was married to Tateahaniyayewin, thier children were Louisa Hapan (who married Abel...albert), Sam Crow, Samuel Adams and Mary Smith (mazakoyakewin). so the line i have from ALbert to present..ALbert and louisa marreid around 1878 in christian ceremony, children Moses, Mary(Obed Wilson) joshua, Eunice (Titus?? wilson) John, who died young but left a son named Enos. JOhn was married to ellen barker. I only know the line from Joshua Redday, as I don't know the Wilson connection well. Joshua married Christine Myrick in 1916. Thier children were Elizabeth (Bjerke), Lillian(cavanaugh), ernest, Lucy (blackboy), Angeline (Feather), Ione, Stell and Mary (Taken Care of). My mother was Lillian's Daughter, Delima Rose Cavanaugh. My mom's siblings Are Liilian Dumarce(survives) Walter Cavanugh (survives) Olivia, Shirley (Johnson), James and there is one more? I am not aware that Albert's father was mdewakanton, i show he was Sisseton. I'd love to be wrong though. I still don't get the pay pay connection....that last question is referred to anyone who can answer it by the way. HOpe it helps. Alicia Hegland
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Post by hermin1 on Jul 11, 2006 1:08:16 GMT -5
Julia Wilson aka Hiwankewin was the illegitmate daugther born out of wedlock, of Icagewin and George paypay, according to testimony given at the Probate hearings re. George Paypay's Heirship. The girl was born some years before George married Mary Paypay.
Julia married David wilson and had the two sons. She died in 1897. As Tamara indicates, Mary paypay was a Stepmother of sorts to Susan Wilson.Any connection the Reddays and Wilsons have would have to be through Icagewin, her true blood mother.
does this make sense? Julia's birth/baptismal record would tellllus who was listed as her mother and father.
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Post by tamara on Jul 11, 2006 8:24:40 GMT -5
Here is the truly amazing part. I have not seen documentation of this post but sometime back Atravino posted a request for help with finding name cross-referencing between the indian names of Mary PayPay and her children. I asked who the children of Mary PayPay were and was told Daniel Wilson (who marries the Julia you speak about, daughter of Icagewin), John Wilson and Julia Wilson and another with an indian name. When the Redday family marries into the Wilson line their children become the grandchildren of Mary PayPay and only through Julia would they be blood related to George if George has no children with Mary PayPay. I DO NOT have proof of this and believe me, I would love to see a probate on Mary PayPay, any other marriages and last names.
Tamara
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Post by taz5150nd on Jul 12, 2006 0:25:34 GMT -5
I agree with you tamara...if the tie is anywhere it's in her probate. I have relatives searching for that tie right now. When we know for sure you will too and anyone else that needs that tie. we will share it with all that need it. It looks like my wifes family just got much bigger!!
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