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Post by kermit1 on Jul 8, 2006 13:41:39 GMT -5
Can someone tell more where this tribe was located and if you know ANYTHING about them. Thank so much.
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Post by tokakte on Jul 8, 2006 19:32:24 GMT -5
The authorities of the 1800's and some academicians distinguish between the Mississippi Sioux, the "D" people, and the Missouri Sioux, the "L" and "N" peoples. I have run across this distinction in several books I have read, such as Meyer's "History of the Santee Sioux"; but I have never heard the word "Mississippi" applied to the Mdewakatonwan alone.
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Post by peacekeeper on Jul 9, 2006 2:42:10 GMT -5
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Post by kermit1 on Jul 9, 2006 12:45:30 GMT -5
Peacekeeper, Thank You so much for these websites. I've been looking for info. on them and thanks to you i've found it. Thanks again.
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Post by peacekeeper on Jul 9, 2006 23:42:46 GMT -5
you are very welcome.
jackie
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Post by drmmbyd on Sept 29, 2006 23:09:18 GMT -5
Is there a Census of the Dakota living in and around Winona available?? if so can you email it to me?? Thank You; S <>< redboy67@tds.net To what you wanted I posted this below This will take you to alot of files that have alot of links to them do not click on where it says -Parent Directory- because it will only take you to other towns in minnesota link below- www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/mn/winona/
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Post by redbrother on Oct 7, 2006 0:59:02 GMT -5
Just got back from the Dakota territory. Went to Ft. Snelling. A very sad feeling there. It felt like 'Holy Ground'. There are some maps and stories on small billboards along the trails and there was a map that showed were a lot of the Dakota resided along the river a long time ago. It was very strange looking at an old photograph, someone took of the old camp (prison), probably from atop the fort. A view of the camp with about fifty tipis in it, enclosed within wooden walls and and then this huge bridge hanging over it today and nothing left to show it was there, replaced with of all things 'a parking lot' and at least a marker with a Medicine wheel in it, inside a plastic box, to honor the site. But up on the bluff, the fort (our old oppressors) is kept in excellent shape. I see the old cannons use to be pointed over towards the camp site. I could only imagine the desperation and fear that, that fort once held. One of my ancestors was in that camp and suffered miserably, as many of our ancestors did. It was a very sad moment indeed. Holy Christ! Those annuity payments a long time ago were at times just a few dollars....... 'yearly'! You can really kind of see what was happening, going through those old records. No wonder some of them 'settled' payment and left. Some didn't even show up to collect. There was one family who got nothing, because they got caught trying to recieve payment, after getting payment from another agency (so it appears). Who knows' what happened to them! Many of us can trace the sad state of affairs all the way back. I can see how my family came to be.
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Post by jazzdog on Oct 10, 2006 2:59:38 GMT -5
red brother
I can sympathize with what you are saying.....many that are searching for that confirming link cannot find out why the individual or family would supposedly voluntarily leave Minnesota during those turbulent times, but this is a very critical part of the true history. Do not forget the hostilities that erupted as a supposed natural consequence of the alleged "Great Sioux Uprising". As a result of the hostilities, the Minnesota Dakota Sioux, were all displaced. This was the truth whether or not you helped the government in the uprising. The Uprising itself, as we all know, was somewhat, but not wholly accepted as the same, logically justified, in the sense of fighting against the government that denied the treaty rights and provisions that were promised them in the relinquishment of their lands in Minnesota in 1837 and 1851 in good faith, so they believed......as with any community, there was always groups within the whole of the community, that believed the time was right to revolt against the suppression and the false promises of the government. However, there were also many of the present Sioux that thought it was totally unwise to uprise against the army of the US and/ the settlers at that particular time. It became, ultimately, and unfortunately, a matter of urgency, for all Mdewakanton in the region once the squishmes began. If you read even the Victors' accounts of the events (for which the Indian people of America had had to always succumb to as a result of the Victors writing the history of the events), you will see that individuals and individual families of the Mdewakanton dangerously to their own peril and life threatening existence, chose to stand for peace, and to protect the truly innocent settlers at the time, rather than to join in an insurgency which may or may not have been designed to overtake the whole of the territories already ceded by the various treaties made during the previous two decades before those critical times. We can all respect the decision to protect the homeland (as presently we are confronted with on a daily basis by politicians thinking in terms of the whole US and its interests), but the protection of the same must be within reason and within reasonable capability (for which I doubt even the present administation has a humane and reseasonable concept of the same). Therefore, our anscestors, as a result of some unfortunate individual and unforeseen consequences, saw themselves in an impossible position of deciding whether to support their friends in the Mdewakanton community who unilaterally chose to attack (without fullout consent of the People), or to stand with those people (the innocent families and individuals that were allowed to take advantage of the warped federal policies of settlement) and the armies of the US. It was a terrible decision to make at such urgency. It was an impossible decision to make in light of the future. The Sioux contigent set on war and attack against the settlers and armies were apparantly set upon retaking all that had been lost in the treaty process. History suggests that those likeminded people had a justifiable reason in their own individual and collective thinking at the time, to want to strike back, but the process of striking back, according to our own individual method of thinking after the fact, was flawed, in that it appeared to be precipitated by the killing of cetain individual white settlers over the true and just frustration of the failure of the US to live up to its treaty obligations to the Dakota. People can only take so much persecution and suppression, where in their own minds, nothing else matters except to respond in a violent manner. In my nonexpert view, this is the way that things went down in those early days in August 1862, and it forced the issue upon those less violent. The fact that an uprising occurred under the circumstances, was not illogical. In my view, as a pacifist, attacks and war never accomplish more than a restructuring of society in a much more drastic means than could have been done in diplomatic conference. However, we do all know that the US had little or no discussion with the Indian people through history diplomatically after the treaties were signed. We cannot sit back and second guess those Sioux that thought it was right at the time in 1862 to take a stand against federal noncompliance in dire straits of suffering and starvation at the hands of the US promised annuities and equities. The Sioux rebellion against the broken promises was somewhat justified......in afterthought, however, it may not have been a good or smart thing to take it out wholly on the occupying white settlers in some accounts. This is where there was a major break in the mentality on how to deal with the explosive situation that occurred in Minnesota in August 1862. But when the locals and the US government took out their wrath upon the whole of the Mdewakanton as a result of the militants (unjustifiable or justifiable), that is where the true injustice of the events occurred when the dust settled. Some will always feel and say that the loyal Mdewakonton were traitors to their people or traitors to the cause to reclaim the land and provisions that were taken from them so long ago.........however, when you sit down and think logically, is it possible that those of our anscestors who chose not to take a part in the insurgency and uprising, were no less Mdewakanton Sioux, for standing up for the protection of innocent life and the hope that preservation of their own individual status and preservation of their own lives was more important than an unplanned uprising would ultimately entail? History suggests that the Sioux community was fractionated by this uprising, and since it was done with little or no consultation with the whole of the people, how could it be done with a true rational consensus? Personally, I always applaud efforts of people to rise against an unjust government......and I do believe that many of the Sioux resistance over time, was completely justified......and, I am not saying that the causes for the 1862 uprising were not just......indeed the causes for which the uprising occurred were just......it is just the manner and the method of how it started and what it encompassed, that created the wrath of the whole of US government upon the Mdewakanton people.....as a whole.....when it was not actually justified for the government to take it out upon the Mdewakanton people as a whole...that I have a serious problem with. As to the issue of traveling to and back from Minnesota at the time to appear at the signing of a specific census listing, just think about the times.......the years following the uprising resulted in massive influx of settlers into the former Mdewakanton lands and there was actually a state sponsered bounty on all Sioux for an undeterminate amount of time that if anyone killed a Sioux Indian and produced the scalp, that at one point, they would recieve $200!! So, mix that with all that went on in and about the concentration camp at Ft. Snelling and the forced deportation of almost 2,000 Mdewakanton Sioux by riverboat in 1863 to Crow Creek, which resulted in the death of at least one third of the boatload on the trip, to try to realize the hatred that existed for any of the Sioux in Minnesota in the 1860's through the 1880's. It would have been safer for individual family members, mostly females without their families to travel back to the homeland for purposes of responding to the call of the government to gather the Mdewakanton Sioux back at any particular site during those troublesome times. It was so dangerous according the rolls and stories presented in history for Mdewakanton men and whole families to travel back to Minnesota under the circumstances. This may explain why there were so many middle aged women on the 1886 1889 census showing up as single women without their husbands or families, and why it has been so difficult for many lineal descendant families to connect accurately to those individual names on those census documents. I cannot honestly sit here and say that, I, myself, as a Mdewakanton living in those times, would have resisted war versus protection of fellow human beings......thankfully I may never have to make that decision. Hopefully..........
Stay safe, stay alert and keep informed about the news.....from sources beyond the major news outlets.
Jazzdog
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Post by tamara on Oct 10, 2006 22:36:53 GMT -5
Once again, well said. it bring to my own mind and heart, my grandfather's words, as we began to look back at our own family history and history in general, "you can not judge the actions of our ancestors, as you were not there, and cannot know everything that happened and affected their decisions". He also told me keep in mind the efforts to simply survive.
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Post by santee1961 on Oct 11, 2006 13:02:16 GMT -5
Didn't the Gov't identify some as Mississippi Mdewankantan Sioux in the late 1970's or early 1980's? I thought there was a payment distributed of approx. $2,000 that was distributed to those that applied. I was young enough to not pay attention but I've been told that most who qualified were Santee. I don't think it was publicized very well and my family did not put in for it even though I believe we qualified. I don't know if that is where the Mississippi Mdewankantan came from.
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Post by redbrother on Oct 12, 2006 19:31:48 GMT -5
Well said Jazzdog, for our own time in the present. I would hope someone reading your post, and many, many others, one hundred years from today, would represent some of the best ways possible of expressing who we are 'here in this past to be'.
it's good brother.
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Post by redbrother on Oct 12, 2006 22:03:05 GMT -5
Wow' 26 years ago? I hope it helps also. Thank you for this fancy1!
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Post by weldon11 on Nov 10, 2006 2:48:03 GMT -5
Fancy 1 I to had gotten that letter and in July 1980 all (8) of us kids each got 2500 Dollars from the Interior Department from the Mississippi Sioux Judgement Case. My cousin just told me the other day that case is still ongoing to date. We also have land in Sississton that is being leased out and my two cousins still recieve checks for.
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