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Post by jazzdog on Dec 18, 2006 3:00:57 GMT -5
Everyone
maybe we need to use our heads and effort to look into the aspect of the "land scripts" or "scrips" that we often see referred to in the old documents relating back to the early 1800's....I do not fully understand why the US government was using this method of Indian land allocation, yet, until I study it more, but it does appear that many of our distant Dakota relatives were "granted" various "land scripts" as it were before and after 1862. I know for a fact that land scripts were granted half breeds at Lake Pepin, MN in 1853 or 1859........maybe there is a key to unlock the overall picture here if we were to focus on the research under those terms and in that nomenclature.......it does appear that it was some sort of mechanism to convert land into a transferable commodity of some sort during those times.......possibly akin to what one would do with shares of stock today....I don't know yet, but I am vastly curious....especially if the US government was involved and was so willing to grant our Indian descendants the status of holding these land scripts (or scrips). I would appreciate it if we could all put our thoughts together on this. and especially the fine minds of denney and tamara, amongst others.
thanks. just trying to do some brainstorming in the wee hours of the morning.......
Jazzdog
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Post by hermin1 on Dec 23, 2006 16:37:40 GMT -5
jazzdog: My gut hunch, is that the Govt. made these grants as land patents, because they were hoping that the land would eventually revert to the government, through accrition(sp.) ( as your ancestors died off, eventually there would be no heirs)
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Post by hermin1 on Dec 23, 2006 16:43:54 GMT -5
it is my understanding that the land was made transferrable to the heirs, through the use of the land patents. the land purchased for the Mdewakantons, and the other bands(Santees, Sisseton-Wahpetons, wpaekute,etc) in 1886 was given to them with the right to sellit if they wanted. When the next allotment was given, it was as a land patent, because the govt. felt they were unable to manage it, and would sell it I believe the land given out in
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Post by arduinna on Dec 23, 2006 19:49:56 GMT -5
Here a bone dry explanation from www.answers.com/topic/land-scripIf you go to the bottom of this web page, you'll find more links to the topic. <<Quote Land Scrip Land Scrip and land warrants were certificates from the Land Office granting people private ownership of certain portions of public lands. Congress authorized issues of scrip—some directly, others only after trial of claims before special commissions or the courts. It also placed restrictions on the use of certain kinds of scrip, making them less valuable than scrip with no limitations. Scrip was used primarily to reward veterans, to give land allotments to children of intermarried Native Americans, to make possible exchanges of private land for public, to indemnify people who lost valid land claims through General Land Office errors, and to subsidize agricultural colleges. The greatest volume of scrip or warrants was given to soldiers of the American Revolution, the War of 1812, the Mexican-American War, and, in 1855, to veterans of all wars who had not previously received a land bounty or who had received less than 160 acres. Warrants of the first two wars were for land located in military tracts set aside for that purpose; those of the Mexican-American War allowed entry to any surveyed public land open to purchase at $1.25 an acre. A total of 68,300,652 acres was thus conveyed to 426,879 veterans, their heirs, or their assignees. Treaties with the Choctaw (1830) and Chickasaw (1832) Indians of Mississippi and Alabama allocated several million acres in individual allotments and land scrip, all of which became the object of speculation by whites and fell into the hands of powerful white traders and a number of prominent political leaders. For the next thirty years, treaties with Indian tribes were almost impossible to negotiate without the inclusion of similar provisions for allotments and scrip, so powerful were the traders in those negotiations. Three issues of scrip to two bands of Chippewas and Sioux in the 1850s and 1860s, totaling 395,000 acres, similarly fell into the hands of speculators, who used it to acquire valuable timberland in Minnesota and California that they would otherwise have been unable to acquire legally.In the MORRILL ACT of 1862, Congress granted each state 30,000 acres for each member it had in the House and Senate to aid in the establishment of agricultural and mechanical arts colleges. Land was given to states containing public domain; states with no public lands were given scrip that they had to sell to third parties to enter land in public domain states. As with military warrants, the scrip—totaling 7,700,000 acres—fell well below the basic price of public lands, thereby reducing the cost of that land to settlers and speculators and minimizing the endowment of colleges. The next major scrip measure was the Soldiers' and Sailors' Additional Homestead Act of 1872, which allowed veterans of the Civil War to count their military service toward the five years required to gain title to a free homestead. It also authorized those homesteading on less than 160 acres to bring their total holdings to 160 acres. The government-issued scrip was greatly in demand as it could be used to enter the $2.50-an-acre reserved land within the railroad land grant areas and to acquire valuable timberland not otherwise open to purchase. In 1877, scrip owners were using it to enter recently ceded Mille Lac Indian lands in Minnesota, worth from $10 to $30 an acre. Other measures were enacted to indemnify holders of public-land claims that were confirmed long after the land had been patented to settlers. Claimants were provided with scrip equivalent to the loss they sustained. Indemnity scrip for some 1,265,000 acres was issued, most of which was subject to entry only on surveyed land open to purchase at $1.25 an acre. The chief exceptions were the famous Valentine scrip for 13,316 acres and the Porterfield scrip for 6,133 acres, which could be used to enter unoccupied, unappropriated, nonmineral land, whether surveyed or not. These rare and valuable forms of scrip could be used to acquire town and bridge sites, islands, tracts adjacent to booming cities such as Las Vegas, or water holes controlling the use of large acreages of rangelands. Their value reached $75 to $100 an acre in 1888. Least defensible of all the scrip measures were the carelessly drawn Forest Management Act of 1897 and the Mount Rainier Act of 1899, which allowed land owners within the national forests and Mount Rainier National Park to exchange their lands for public lands elsewhere. Under these provisions it was possible for railroads to cut the timber on their national holdings, then surrender the cutover lands for "lieu scrip" that allowed them to enter the best forest lands in the public domain. It was charged that some national forests, and possibly Mount Rainier National Park, were created to enable inside owners to rid themselves of their less desirable lands inside for high stumpage areas outside. The Weyerhaeuser Company acquired some of its richest stands of timber with Mount Rainier scrip. After much criticism, the exchange feature was ended in 1905. As public lands rapidly diminished and the demand for land ownership intensified, values of scattered undeveloped land increased. This was accompanied by the increase in value of the various forms of scrip, without which it was impossible to acquire these tracts, because public land sales were halted in 1889. Peak prices of the nineteenth century seemed small in the twentieth century, when speculators bid up quotations to $500, $1,000, and even $4,000 an acre. By 1966 administrative relaxation had wiped out some distinctions between types of scrip; Valentine, Porterfield, and "Sioux Half-Breed" scrip were all accepted for land with an appraised value of $1,386 an acre, and Soldiers' and Sailors' Additional Homestead and Forest Management lieu scrip could be exchanged for land with a value from $275 to $385 an acre. At that time, 3,655 acres of the most valuable scrip and 7,259 acres of that with more limitations on use were outstanding. Bibliography Gates, Paul W. History of Public Land Law Development. Washington, D.C.: U.S. Government Printing Office, 1968. ———. The Jeffersonian Dream: Studies in the History of American Land Policy and Development. Albuquerque: University of New Mexico Press, 1996. Oberly, James W. Sixty Million Acres: American Veterans and the Public Lands before the Civil War. Kent, Ohio: Kent State University Press, 1990. Mentioned In Land Scrip is mentioned in these AnswerPages: Mesabi Iron Range (American history) Cornell University (American history) Bridgeport, Chicago Alcorn State University land mestizo Rutherford B. Hayes' Fourth State of the Union Address Abraham Lincoln's Fourth State of the Union Address Ulysses S. Grant's First State of the Union Address Franklin Pierce's Fourth State of the Union Address End Quote>> arduinna
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Post by arduinna on Dec 23, 2006 19:55:22 GMT -5
In my opinion, land scrips issued to the half breeds of the Mdewakanton band and others in Dakota Territory / Minnesota / Lake Pepin for example, would proof the fact that ancestors had land in Minnesota prior to 1862 and were, as family members and/or descendants, connected with f.e. the Mdewakanton bands of the area at that time.
arduinna
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Post by hermin1 on Dec 23, 2006 22:15:41 GMT -5
arduinna, I fully agree with you, but I was talking about land patents, and you're talking about a diffferent form of land grant. The difference between these two is like the difference beteen apples and grapes. both are fruit, and both have seeds, but one is a pome the other is an ackene.
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Post by arduinna on Dec 23, 2006 23:11:29 GMT -5
arduinna, I fully agree with you, but I was talking about land patents, and you're talking about a diffferent form of land grant. The difference between these two is like the difference beteen apples and grapes. both are fruit, and both have seeds, but one is a pome the other is an ackene. yes, I know the difference between apples and grapes, and the difference between land patents and land scrips. the sioux half breed land scrips were patents given to the sioux half breeds by treatys and resulted in land patents. I was referring to the first post (jazzdog) opening this thread. arduinna
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Post by hermin1 on Dec 25, 2006 1:19:31 GMT -5
arduinna. Please excuse my eror. Ias I said above, I agree with you in what yousaid about your posting re. the land scrips. I was surfing the internet in the wee hours of the monring @ a month ago and came across a web site that told about the land scrips givne the half bloods and Chippewas, and the cheating of some of these people out of their land by unscrupulous people. But as I sometimes do , I forgot to write down the web site so I could returnnnnn to it, and to post the website address on our website.
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Post by jazzdog on Jan 12, 2007 3:32:34 GMT -5
Trace the land scrips for all of your relatives.....I still believe that this may be a key component of valuable information that may help us all find yet unfound documentation on our relatives and anscestors. The scrips were the means used by the US to grant land interest to our anscestors with the lure that the scrips held value if you got into a need to sell the scrip if you needed money during those times........which goes hand and hand with the motive to either force the Indians and/or the mixed bloods or halfbloods, to sell their land scrips to the government and/or anyone who was willing to buy.....again, a mechanism to achieve the main US goal of disgorging the Native Americans, including our Mdewakanton anscestors, of their granted scrip lands following the 1831, 1851 and 1857 agreements to seek lands in the Minnesota territory for settlement and use of the whites and the government. This aspect is something that is entirely separate from and diverse from, the Wolfchild litigation. Sure, there may be overlapping measures with the same considerations, but the purposeful intent of the government to displace the very peoples that had been granted, then displaced and disgorged of those land holdings, is, and could be a potentially entirely different issue than what we are all dealing with at this point with the 1886 and 1889 census lands and the accompanying circumstances. Please at least give an effort to try to focus on this matter on down the line through your anscestry.........it may prove more, or just as important, as what we see in Wolfchild. We all know and realize that the "Allotment" phase of our government's dealing with our anscestors, was a purely contrived mechanism to ultimately "legally" deprive our anscestors from their lands and possessions, when the families were ultimately, through strife, poverty and need, forced to give the lands up, because they could not afford to pay the attendant "taxes" that were now affixed to their "allotted" lands. The screw job was effected through many means........ maybe we can see some other manner of approaching the loss of so much valuable Mdewakanton peoples' rightful properties, that we may have a more thorough understanding of what they all lost in those times, for which the US benefited, and for which there was never any true justice to the beneficiaries, lineal descendants, of the Mdewakanton Sioux that has yet to be seen in the eyes of modern man.
just a thought. I hope for some feedback and some comments on this. Please.
Jazzdog
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Post by wanbligi on Jan 12, 2007 22:37:15 GMT -5
Example: The United States of America, to all to whom these presents shall come, greeting: Whereas, By the act of Congress, approved on the 17th day of July, 1854, entitled "An act to authorize the President of the United States to cause to be surveyed the trac t of land in the Territory of Minnesota, belonging to the half breeds or mixec bloods of the Dacotah or Sioux nation of Indians, and for other purposes," To which Congress passed an amendatory act approved May 19, 1858, in which said act of 1854 authority is given for the issue and location of Dacotah or Sioux half breed certificate or scrip; And whereas there has been desposited in the General Land Office of the United States a Certificate of the Registerand Receiver of the Land Office at St. Peter, MN whereby it appears that Dacotah or Sioux half breed Certificate No. ___ for 40 acres issued by the Commissioner of Indian Affairs in favor of___________ ____________, has be located and surrendered by the said _____________ ___________in full satisfaction for the north west quarter of the south east quarter of section thirty five in Township one hundred and nine north, of range thirty five west, in the district of lands subject to sale at St. Peter, Minnesota, containing forth acres, according to the Official Plat of the Public Lands returned to the General Land Office by the Surveyor General. Now know ye, That the United States of America, in consideration of the promises, have Given and Granted, and by these presents Do Give and Grant, unto the said __________ ____________and to his heirs the said tract above described: To Have and to Hold the same, Together with all the rights, privieges, immunities, and appurtenances of whatsoever nature thereunto beloning, uno the said __________ ____________and to his heirs and assigns forever. In Testimony whereof, I, Abraham Lincoln, President of the United States of America have caused these Letters to be made Patent, and the Seal of the General Land Office to be hereunto affixed. Given under my hand, at the City of Washington, the fifteenth day of September, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty four, and of the Independence of the United States the eighty ninth. By the President, Abraham Lincoln By E. WD. Neill, Secretary, Granger, Recorder of the General Land Office, Filed for Record May 10th A.D. 1866 at 9 o'clock A.M. End This is an example of the particular land certificate/script of the half breeds or mixed bloods of the Dacotah or Sioux nation of Indians as JASSDOG was referencing in previous messages. Today is January 12, 2007 This is Wanbligi at Thunder Butte.
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Post by tamara on Jan 13, 2007 16:11:07 GMT -5
Brown Eagle
Thanks for the information and Jazzdog, I have come to expect this type of valuable perspective from you and agree very much that we need to look at this. I have wanted to see if there were examples regarding the indian lands prior to the 63 removal act that would show the clause for the friendly sioux to remain was utitilized in any respect and that it does have merit in the current proceedings. I have seen where Jane Robertson sold her daughters lands in 1866 in Redwood Falls. This would indicate to me that the daughter was able to retain her indian land scrip and I wonder under what act that land shows or what notes are in that land sale. has anyone ever seen anything like that?
Tamara
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Tamara Jazzdog Others
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Post by Tamara Jazzdog Others on Jan 14, 2007 21:42:27 GMT -5
Attempt to answer your questions or direct you. The prior to 1863 item I am looking at a Patent give by the U.S.A to one Madeline Renville under Certificate No. 468 C in part so states, "And Whereas, there has been deposited in the General Land Office of the United States a Certificate of the Register and Receiver of the Land Office at RedWing No.214 whereby it appears that Dacotah or Sioux half breed Certificate No. 468 C for 80 acres, issued by the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, in favor of Madeline Renville has been located and surrendered by the said Madeline Renville in full satisfaction for the ________________________________________________________________________________________________________containing Eighty Acres according to the Official Plat of the public lands returned to the General Land Office by the Surveyor General. Now Know Ye, That the United States of America, in consideration of the promises, have given and granted, and by these presents Do Give and Grant, unto the said Madeline Renville and to her heirs, privileges, immunities, and appurtenances of whatsoever nature thereunto belonging, unto the said Madeline Renville and to her heirs and assigns, forever. In Testimony Whereof, I, James Buchanan President of the United States of America, have caused these Letters to be made Patent, and the Seal of the General Land Office to be hereunto affixed. Given under my hand, at the City of Washington, the Tenth day of January in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and fifty nine and of the Independence of the United States the Eighty Third. By the President: James Buchanan; By J. Albright Secretary; J. Granger Recorder of the General Land Office. Found in Book 16 Page 504 - Patent, Wabasha County, Wabasha, Minnesota. Wabasha County Recorder Tele #651-565-3623. Also Tamara, you mention Redwood Falls, Mn all I can say about that is to suggest you call the Redwood County Recorders at (507) 637-4017 on your item. Another mentionable is the Minnesota Historical Society St. Paul, MN (651) 296-2143 has according to a free brochure captioned, "Researching Dakota Family History at the Minnesota Historical Society Library and Archives which on Page 10 of that brochure mentions a section of "Register of Sioux Half-Breed Scrip Entries" which continues with The Treaty of Prairie du Chien (1831)set aside 320,819 acres of land near present-day Wabasha as a reserve for "Sioux half-breeds." As the surrounding area opened for settlement, pressure arose to open the half-breed tract to white settlers. Half-breed title was extinguished by dividing the reserve land amont the enrolled half-breeds and issuing scrip to each individual in proportion to his or her share of the reserve. By law the scrip could not be alienated, but this was often evaded and the script was entered by someone other than the person to whom it was issued. MnHS call number: See the State Archives Notebooks under U.S. General Land Office, Red Wing Land District (Archival Collection). A transcribed version is available as "Original Land Entries: Mixed Blood/Indian Scrip," transcribed by Christopher Bakeman and Published in the Minnesota Genealogical Journal: no. 17 (Mar. 1997): pp. 1619-1634- Red Wing Land District, 1857-1861, part I.; no. 18 (Sept. 1997): pp. 1711-1722 - Red Wing Land District, 1857-1861, part II; MnHS call number: Reading Room CS 42.M553 Nos. 17-18 (Periodical). Anyway this is just a little information to your concerns. Hope it helps and maybe others can add whatever too. Thanks and Peace. This is wanbligi on January 14, 2007 around 7:40 p.m.
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wanbligi at Thunder Butte
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Post by wanbligi at Thunder Butte on Jan 14, 2007 22:38:25 GMT -5
Tamara, Jazzdog, Others: Greetings from wanbligi! I will have to attempt rewriting this again as the previous message I did something so my attempt there to send may have back fired. Anyway, here it goes. In response to your last message I am looking at a Patent for Madeline Renville which says in part, " And Whereas, there has been deposited in the General Land Office of the United States a Certificate of the Register and Receiver of the Land Office at Red Wing No 214 whereby it appears that Dacotah or Sioux half breed Certificate No. 468 C for 80 acres, issued by the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, in favor of Madeline Renville has been located and surrendered by the said Madeline Renville in full satisfaction for the East half of the South................................................................................., in the district of Lands formerly subject to sale at Red Wing, Now Henderson, Minnesota, Containing Eighty Acres according to the Official Plat of the Public lands returned to the General Land Office by the Surveyor General. Now Know Ye, That the United States of America, in consideration of the promises, have given and granted, and by these presents Do Give and Grant, unto the said Madeline Renville and to her heirs, the said tract above described: To Have And To Hold the same, together with all the rights, privileges, immunities, and appurtenances of whatsoever nature thereunto belonging, unto the said Madeline Renville and to her heirs and assigns, forever. In Testimony Whereof, I, James Buchanan President of the United States of America, have caused these Letters to be made Patent, and the Seal of the General Land Office to be hereunto affixed. Given under my hand, at the City of Washington, the Tenth day of January in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and fifty nine and of the Independence of the United States the Eighty Third. By the President: James Buchanan; By J. Albright, Secretary; J. Granger, Recorder of the General Land Office. And as far as your question of the Redwood Falls item I would refer you to the Redwood County Recorders Office, Redwood Falls, MN at (507) 637-4016. Some other info that may be of help is that the Minnesota Historical Society at St. Paul, MN (651)296-2143 has a small brochure captioned, "Researching Dakota Family History at the Minnesota Historical Society Library and Archives" which has on Page 10 of the free brochure labeled "Register of Sioux Half-Breed Script Entries", which continues with, The Treaty of Prairie du Chien (1831) set aside 320,819 acres of land near present-day Wabasha as a reserve for "Sioux half-breeds." As the surrounding area opened for settlement, pressure arose to open the half-breed to white settlers. Half-breed title was extinguished by dividing the reserve land among the enrolled half-breeds and issuing scrip to each individual in proportion to his or her share of the reserve. By law the scrip could not be alienated, but this was often evaded and the scrip was entered by someone other than the person to whom it was issued. MnHS call number: See the Archives Notebooks under U.S. General Land Office, Red Wing Land District (Archival Collection). A transcribed version is available version is available as: "Original Land Entries: Mixed Blood/Indian Scrip," transcribed by Christopher Bakeman and published in the Minnesota Genealogical Journal: no. 17 (Mar. 1997): pp. 1619-1634 - Red Wing Land District, 1857-1861, part I; no. 18, (Sept. 1997): pp. 1711-1722 - Red Wing Land District, 1857-1861, part II. MnHS call number: Reading Room CS 42.M553 nos. 17-18 (Periodical). This is all I can add to this at this time, but hopefully others with their wisdom may step forward and comment. Genealogy is not easy, but stay persistent and keep plenty of notes when you go to that research site so you'll remember where you found what and when and by whom, etc. Keep up the good work. Peace. This is wanbligi on Jan. 14, 2007 around 8:31 p.m. Please excuse my oversight if I duplicated this mailing as I am getting use to this, ok. Later.
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Post by wanbligi on Jan 15, 2007 16:41:42 GMT -5
Tamara, Jazzdog, and others:
I NEED TO APOLOGIZE AS RESPONSE #11 WAS WRITTEN BY ME, WANBLIGI, AND I APOLOGIZE FOR IDENTIFYING THE WRITERS AS TAMARA, JAZZDOG, AND OTHERS. I AM NEW AT THIS SO I WANTED MESSAGE #11 TO BE ADDRESSED TO TAMARA, JAZZDOG, AND OTHERS AND IT DID NOT COME OUT THAT WAY.
RESPONSE #12 IS THE CORRECT ONE I WANTED TO BE ADDRESSED TO TAMARA, JAZZDOG, AND OTHERS AND THAT CAME OUT RIGHT AS REFERENCING MYSELF, WANBLIGI, AS THE ORIGINATOR OF #12. Thank you and I needed to let everyone know on that as my error. This is wanbligi on January 15, 2007 at 2:40 p.m.
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Post by denney on Jan 15, 2007 19:25:01 GMT -5
National Archives, RG 75, Entry 364, "Treaty of April 12, 1864, Red Lake and Pembina Half-Breeds," Scrip Stubs, Number 000; with notation, "This Certificate, in Blank, sent to the Commissioner of the General Land Office, Oct. 9, 1868 www.maquah.net/Historical/Scrip/list.html
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Post by dwqwd on Jan 15, 2007 20:41:15 GMT -5
Ok
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Post by dwqdwq on Jan 15, 2007 20:41:47 GMT -5
Ok
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Post by dwqwdq on Jan 15, 2007 20:42:14 GMT -5
Ok
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Post by dwqdwq on Jan 15, 2007 20:43:00 GMT -5
OK your going on the ban list fewfew
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Post by tamara on Jan 16, 2007 14:51:00 GMT -5
OK your going on the ban list fewfew LOL, Denney...
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