Chief Cloud Man/Mahpiyawicasta

[hermin1]

cherylk: That is a very beautiful and moving message.
Mr. Lehmann descends from Hannah Woodbury, Warren Lawrence's sister.
i will contact him and give him your Email,so you two can exchange information.

[cherylk]

Thank you again for all your help. I see you've done extensive research on the Eastman and Weston families as well. How funny every time I research a name..this website shows up every time. :-)

I read the autobiography of Lawrence Taliaferro again, thinking I had missed something before. Nope. Did someone forget to mention to this man he's writing an AUTO biography?? lol I thought those were supposed to be written in the first person?? How strange. And disappointing.

I love the writings of Charles Ohiyesa Eastman. I wonder why he didn't write very much about grandpa Cloud Man, yet wrote books on other chiefs, including Little Crow. I have found several photos of his beautiful family, including his daughters.

Seth Eastman is another talent. Yet with him I wonder why he never drew his father in-law, yet painted everything and everyone else~! I don't understand how that can be.

I am still researching the Weston family. I believe the only photo I have is of David Owancaduta Weston. I also found a few photos of the Skyman family. Interesting bunch, aren't they? :-)

[hermin1]

Yes that is an interesting family to say the least.
if you could make it to Flandreau,Sd,their museum has family files on the members of their tribe. I believe you will find one on the Westons.
please don't hesitate to contact me if you need help with your search.
David Weston fathered a child with Martha Stone,named Louisa @1863/64.Louisa married Joseph Godfry,Jr. and had several children with him,then she married Samuel Sully.

[cherylk]

~Wishing all of you a very safe and happy Christmas~

[hermin1]

Cherylk: AVery merr christas to you and your famlyand very blessed new Years

[cherylk]

Hello all~

I am still looking for descendants of Chief Cloud Man Mahpiya wicasta and Chief Little Crow Taoyateduta.
would like to meet you.

[deastmancanku]

I am a descendent of both of the Chiefs named Cloudman. There is a lot of confusion as to which one was which. The Cloudman that was related to Little Crow is not the same Cloudman that Charles Eastman is descended from according to the information that I have. There are a few books that confuse the situation because the authors don't seem to realize there are two of them.

'

[hermin1]

Mar 2, 2014 17:50:24 GMT -5 deastmancanku said:

I am a descendent of both of the Chiefs named Cloudman. There is a lot of confusion as to which one was which. The Cloudman that was related to Little Crow is not the same Cloudman that Charles Eastman is descended from according to the information that I have. There are a few books that confuse the situation because the authors don't seem to realize there are two of them.

'

Welcome to our website. Weappreciateyoursharing of information with us .
I agree with you ,re. the puzzle of the Two coloudmans. I too am scratching my head on this subject.louis Garcia wrotea very interesting article re. this subject.
that is unique,your being a descendent of both of them.would you be willing to sharehowyou descend from both of them?

[Spirit of the Owl Woman]

It is very doubtful that you will find a drawing or photo of Chief Cloudman as the camera was not invented until 1816. Images of Indians did not come about until the late 1850's. He died in 1863 so he was probably passed by.

His daughter, Hushes the Night, married Daniel LaMont. This is what I have on this union:

Daniel Lamont: (1798/99 - 1837) He was the son of Colin Lamont Sr. & Jane Smith of Greenock, Scotland, baptized on 24 April 1798 at Greenock. He married 1st.to Hushes ("The Night") (daughter of Dakota Lake Calhoun Band Chief, Cloudman) before 1824 and married 2nd.to Margaret [he was the son-in-law of Markpeemanee / "Walking-Cloud" who was an "old" Sisseton Chief in 1824], his children were: Jane (m.Moses J.Titus in 1867), Colin & Charles.

Daniel was working on Lord Selkirk's Red River Colony, but about January of 1817 returned home to Scotland by a Hudson Bay ship. He was back on the Red River in 1820/21, trading for the Hudson Bay Co.and in 1821/22 at Lac Traverse with Robert Dickson, Joseph Renville, Kenneth McKenzie & William S.Laidlow, where he co-founded the Columbia Fur Company. He was at St.Louis, where he apparently resided, in June of 1822 when he filed his intention of becoming a citizen of the United States. In 1826 he was at Fort Factory at the mouth of the Minnesota River and in the Upper Missouri Outfit the next year. In 1832 he was at Fort Tecumseh (Ft.Pierre) on the Missouri River, but in 1835 he quit the Upper Missouri Outfit.

The following is from his Will & Testament which he wrote at Fort Pierre on the Missouri in November of 1834: "...First I direct that in event of my dying in the Civilized World or at any of the Establishments of the Upper Missouri Outfit of which I am at present a Member my Body shall be Committed to its Mother Earth from whence it came with decency but no Parade; and with the usual forms of the Scotch Presbyterian Church in which I was Baptised and in infancy reared, tho' agreeably to the interpretation of its tenates in Missouri I cannot be a Member thereof: And as to such Worldly Estate as it hath pleased God to Intrust me with I dispose of the same as follows...I further direct that the Sum of Two Thousand Dollars shall be paid by my Executors to my much esteem'd Friend William Laidlaw at present one of associates in business out of the first Moneys accruing from my interest in the Upper Missouri Outfit...And I do hereby make and ordain my much esteem'd friends Pierre Chouteau Jr. and George Collier Esquires of St.Louis aforesaid Executors of this my Will and testament..."

users.usinternet.com/dfnels/l amont.htm

[Spirit of the Owl Woman]

AN INDIAN PATRIARCH.

Chief Cloudman or Man-of-the-sky, was one of the strongest characters among the natives on the headwaters of the Mississippi in the earlier half of the nineteenth century. He was one of the leading chiefs of the Santee band of Sioux Indians. He was born about 1780. He was brave in battle, wise in council, and possessed many other noble qualities, which caused him to rise far above his fellow chieftains. He possessed a large fund of common sense. Years prior to the advent of the white man in this region, he regarded hunting and fishing as a too precarious means to a livelihood, and attempted to teach his people agriculture and succeeded to a limited extent.
It was a strange circumstance that prompted the chief to this wise action. On a hunting tour in the Red River country, with a part of his band, they were overtaken by a drifting storm and remained, for several days, under the snow, without any food whatsoever. While buried in those drifts, he resolved to rely, in part, upon agriculture, for subsistence, if he escaped alive, and he carried out his resolution, after the immediate peril was passed. His band cultivated small fields of quickly maturing corn, which had been introduced by their chief in the early 30's. He was respected and loved by his people and quite well obeyed.

Before the coming of the missionaries he taught and enforced, by his example, this principle, namely, that it as wrong to kill non-combatants, or to kill under any circumstances in time of peace. He favored peace rather than war. He was twenty-five years of age, and had six notches on the handle of his tomahawk, indicating that he had slain half a dozen of his Ojibway foes before he adopted this human policy.

His own band lived on the shores of Lakes Calhoun and Harriet, within the present limits of Minneapolis . On the present site of lovely Lakewood— Minneapolis' most fashionable cemetery—was his village of several hundred savages, and also an Indian burial place. This village was the front guard against the war parties of the Ojibways—feudal enemies of the Sioux—but finally as their young men were killed off in battle, they were compelled to remove and join their people on the banks of the Minnesota and farther West. He located his greatly reduced band at Bloomington , directly west of his original village. This removal occurred prior to 1838.
He was never hostile to the approach of civilization or blind to the blessings it might confer on his people.

He was one of the first of his tribe to accept the white man's ways and to urge his band to follow his example. This fact is confirmed by the great progress his descendants have made.

He was the first Sioux Indian of any note to welcome those first pioneer missionaries, the Pond brothers. As early as 1834 he encouraged them to erect their home and inaugurate their work in his village. In all the treaties formed between the government and the Sioux, he was ever the ready and able advocate of the white man's cause. He threw all the weight of his powerful influence in favor of cession to the United States government of the military reservation on which Fort Snelling now stands. He died at Fort Snelling in 1863, and was buried on the banks of the Minnesota in view of the fort.

He was the father of seven children, all of whom are dead, except his son David Weston, his successor in the chieftainship, who still lives at Flandreau , South Dakota, at the age of seventy-eight years. He was for many years a catechist of the Episcopal Church. His two daughters were called Hushes-the-Night and Stands-like-a-Spirit. They were once the belles of Lake Harriet , to whom the officers and fur traders paid homage. Hushes-the-Night married a white man named Lamont and became the mother of a child called Jane. She had one sister, who died childless, in St. Paul, in 1901. Jane Lamont married Star Titus, a nephew of the Pond brothers. They became the parents of three sons and two daughters. Two of these sons are bankers and rank among the best business men of North Dakota. They are recognized as leaders among the whites. The other son is a farmer near Tracy , Minnesota . Stands-Like-a-Spirit was the mother of one daughter, Mary Nancy Eastman, whose father, Captain Seth Eastman, was stationed at Fort Snelling— 1830-36. Mary Nancy married Many Lightnings, a fullblood, one of the leaders of the Wahpeton-Sioux. They became the parents of four sons and one daughter. After Many Lightnings became a Christian, he took his wife's name, Eastman, instead of his own, and gave all his children English names. John the eldest, and Charles Alexander, the youngest son, have made this branch of the Cloudman family widely and favorably known.

John Eastman, at twenty-six years of age, became a Presbyterian minister, and for more than a quarter of a century has been the successful pastor of the First Presbyterian church of Flandreau , South Dakota. He was for many years a trusty Indian agent at that place. He is a strong factor in Indian policy and politics. He has had a scanty English education in books, but he has secured an excellent training, chiefly by mingling with cultured white people.

His proud statement once was; "every adult member of the Flandreau band is a professing Christian, and every child of school age is in school." During the "Ghost Dance War," in 1890, his band remained quietly at home, busy about their affairs. In the spring of 1891, they divided $40,000 among themselves.

Charles Alexander Eastman was born in 1858, in Minnesota , the ancestral home of the Sioux, and passed the first fifteen years of his life in the heart of the wilds of British America, enjoying to the full, the free, nomadic existence of his race. During all this time, he lived in a teepee of buffalo skins, subsisted upon wild rice and the fruits of the chase, never entered a house nor heard the English language spoken, and was taught to distrust and hate the white man.

The second period (third) of his life was spent in school and college, where after a short apprenticeship in a mission school, he stood shoulder to shoulder, with our own youth, at Beloit , Knox, Dartmouth and the Boston university. He is an alumnus of Dartmouth of '87 and of Boston University , department of medicine, of '90.

During the last fifteen years, he has been a man of varied interests and occupations, a physician, missionary, writer and speaker of wide experience and, for the greater part of the time, has held an appointment under the government.

At his birth he was called "Hakadah" or "The Pitiful Last," as his mother died shortly after his birth. He bore this sad name till years afterwards he was called Ohiyesa, "The Winner," to commemorate a great victory of La Crosse, the Indian's favorite game, won by his band, "The Leaf Dwellers," over their foes, the Ojibways. When he received this new name, the leading medicine man thus exhorted him: "Be brave, be patient and thou shalt always win. Thy name is "Ohiyesa the Winner."" The spirit of his benediction seems to follow and rest upon him in his life-service.

His grandmother was "Stands-Like-a-Spirit," the second daughter of the old chief Cloudman. His full-blooded Sioux father was a remarkable man in many ways and his mother, a half-blood woman, was the daughter of a well-known army officer. She was the most beautiful woman of the "Leaf Dwellers" band. By reason of her great beauty, she was called "Demi-Goddess of the Sioux." Save for her luxuriant, black hair, and her deep black eyes, she had every characteristic of Caucasian descent. The motherless lad was reared by his grandmother and an uncle in the wilds of Manitoba , where he learned thoroughly, the best of the ancient folk lore, religion and woodcraft of his people. Thirty years of civilization have not dimmed his joy in the life of the wilderness nor caused him to forget his love and sympathy for the primitive people and the animal friends, who were the intimates of his boyhood.

He is very popular as a writer for the leading magazines. "His Recollections of Wild Life" in St. Nicholas, and his stories of "Wild Animals" in Harper, have entertained thousands of juvenile as well as adult readers. His first book, "Indian boyhood," which appeared in 1902, has passed through several editions, and met with hearty appreciation. "Red Hunters and the Animal People," published in 1904, bids fair to be, at least, equally popular.

During the last two years, he has lectured in many towns from Maine to California and he is welcomed everywhere. His specialty is the customs, laws, religion, etc., of the Sioux. Witty, fluent, intellectual, trained in both methods of education, he is eminently fitted to explain, in an inimitable and attractive manner, the customs, beliefs and superstitions of the Indian. He describes not only the life and training of the boy, but the real Indian as no white man could possibly do. He brings out strongly the red man's wit, music, poetry and eloquence. He also explains graphically from facts gained from his own people, the great mystery of the battle of the Little Big Horn in which the gallant Custer and brave men went to their bloody death.

He was married in 1891 at New York City, to Miss Elaine Goodale, a finely cultured young lady from Massachusetts , herself a poetess and prose writer of more than ordinary ability.

They have lived very happily together ever since and are the parents of five lovely children. They have lived in Washington and St. Paul and are now residents of Amherst , Massachusetts . Whether in his physician's office, in his study, on the lecture platform, in the press or in his own home, Dr. Charles Alexander Eastman is a most attractive personality.

Source:

The Project Gutenberg EBook of Among the Sioux, by R. J. Creswell This eBook is for the use of anyone anywhere at no cost and with almost no restrictions whatsoever. You may copy it, give it away or re-use it under the terms of the Project Gutenberg Lic

[hermin1]

cloudman had 3 daughters,including the 2 mentioned above.the third was Anpetuinajin who married Major Lawrence Taliaferro.they had a daughter Mary Elizabeth Taliaferro, wife of Warren Woodbury. Warren died in 1863 during service with the Union Army in The Civil War of 1861-1865.Mary and her family eventually settled at Santee Ind. Res, where Mary died.
Cloudman's father was a French Nobleman and his mother was Old Eve.

[hermin1]

what really makes me scratch my head on the alleged two chiefs named Cloud man is that they both died in 1863.Coincidental?
I do know from my reading of the Pond Brothers bio written by their gr. grandson, that Chief Cloud Man moved his tribe, from where the Pond Brothers first settled, because the Chippewa raids had resulted in the loss of many of his male tribe members.
We also do not know how many wives he had. Louie mentioned only one wife.
\The Minn. Hist. Soc. bio on David Weston says that he took over as leader of Cloud Man's group when the chief died. I also know from Philip Weston's bio, that he also took the Cloud man's mane at Siseeton-Wahpeton reservation.
if you lookat the pre-1862 Indian annuity, and censuses, you will only find one Chief mahpiya Wicasta.

[wakanhotain]

Hermin1
The Westons are Isanti (Santee/ Mdewakantun)
I don't know what the records show but the Cloudman who has a son that at one time lived here at Spirit Lake is supposed to be Wahpetun.
Ironheart the son, took an allotment of land at Lake Traverse and then went to Granite Falls to be with the rest of his relatives and died there.
We don't know who the father of Cloudman was or do we?
Mark Diedrich wrote an article explaining the difference between the two leaders, perhaps in the Ramsey Country Historical Journal or some such periodical.
What does the Lake Traverse record actually say?
perhaps it will give me a clue to straighten this out.
Louie

[hermin1]

cherylK: Annette ennis has a huge family tree on ancestry for Cloudman's family.
if you write her, I know she will be thrilled to compare notes with you and also give you an invite to her tree.
Email: [e-mail]

[hermin1]

louie: Contact Vicky Valenta, as she has the early records for the Sisseton-Wahpetons:
[e-mail]

[hermin1]

Dec 15, 2014 15:51:16 GMT -5 wakanhotain said:

Hermin1
The Westons are Isanti (Santee/ Mdewakantun)
I don't know what the records show but the Cloudman who has a son that at one time lived here at Spirit Lake is supposed to be Wahpetun.
Ironheart the son, took an allotment of land at Lake Traverse and then went to Granite Falls to be with the rest of his relatives and died there.
We don't know who the father of Cloudman was or do we?
Mark Diedrich wrote an article explaining the difference between the two leaders, perhaps in the Ramsey Country Historical Journal or some such periodical.
What does the Lake Traverse record actually say?
perhaps it will give me a clue to straighten this out.
Louie

The Cloudman who was the grandfather of Charles Eastman ,was the son of a French nobleman and a relative of Old Betsy, according to Charles Eastman.
Mr. Brill made out a chart of this Cloudman Family for the BIA.

Louie, Vicky Valenta may be able to help you with the pre 1862 Censuses for the yellow medicine bands. her email is [e-mail]

[brighteyes]

Wow. Thanks! My Great Great Great Grandmother was Hushes the Night, the daughter of Cloudman Born about 1800.Hushes had 3 children with Daniel Lamont (Scottish immigrant born 1798). They were Jane, Charles and Colin Lamont (b. 1825). His youngest daughter Eliza Mae Lamont Kindle (b. 1873) is my Grandmother. Her mother, Fanny LeGrand was also half indian. She was the daughter of Bear Woman (b.1898) and Cardinal LeGrand (b. 1770) . Eliza spoke Indian. She married Jack Kindle (white).Their daughter Effye Elizabeth Kindle Irving was my mother. I have info about Colin Lamont’s life and Scottish relatives if anyone is interested.

I would like to know more about my Grandmother’s Grandparents, Cardinal LeGrand and his wife. Her english name could be Lucy or Fanny. I wonder if she was Yankton or Santee. My mother told stories about our french relative who “got off the ship in Canada instead of going to New York to meet his Uncle” who was somebody important. I always figured this was LeGrand but maybe could have been the french nobleman father of Cloudman mentioned here.

Happy 2015 fellow seekers!

[BIG JON]

Dec 18, 2014 18:15:24 GMT -5 hermin1 said:

Dec 15, 2014 15:51:16 GMT -5 wakanhotain said:

Hermin1
The Westons are Isanti (Santee/ Mdewakantun)
I don't know what the records show but the Cloudman who has a son that at one time lived here at Spirit Lake is supposed to be Wahpetun.
Ironheart the son, took an allotment of land at Lake Traverse and then went to Granite Falls to be with the rest of his relatives and died there.
We don't know who the father of Cloudman was or do we?
Mark Diedrich wrote an article explaining the difference between the two leaders, perhaps in the Ramsey Country Historical Journal or some such periodical.
What does the Lake Traverse record actually say?
perhaps it will give me a clue to straighten this out.
Louie

The Cloudman who was the grandfather of Charles Eastman ,was the son of a French nobleman and a relative of Old Betsy, according to Charles Eastman.
Mr. Brill made out a chart of this Cloudman Family for the BIA.

Louie, Vicky Valenta may be able to help you with the pre 1862 Censuses for the yellow medicine bands. her email is [e-mail]

Dec 3, 2014 at 4:21pm
Big Jon:
Message from Xena Whipple?

Lay it on me! [e-mail]

I am searching for anything that proves the post about Solomon. I see that you have references and I appreciate that. Cloudman is who I'm looking for. What proof is there of his children? Documentation? Maybe some old letters by the agent or Sibley or whomever...These books could tell me what I need to know...but I don't have them! Do you? I'm sure the Cloudman book by Diedrich has the bulk of the material I need about him. (you probably don't either-do you?) (I have through Dakota eyes) Please reply...Just checking-maybe you know something.



Dec 11, 2014 at 2:48am
Hermin1:
hello Big Jon: haven't see4n you on the web site in a coon's age.
I hope yyou are doing well.
I need to go and check that posting on Solomon, and then my files, and will get back to you asap.



Big Jon:I do have documentation of several of his descendents. I have the Bio of the Pond brothers that was written by their gr. grandson,I have a copy of the letter Charles Eastman wrote about his family. I also have a copy of an article on three of his granddaughters. I also have documentation of at least 7 of his descendants whom I have helped trace their d3escendancy back to CLoud Man.
No, I do not have Diedrich's book On Cloud man. I do have the author's book on Old Betsy, the bio on Little Crow, and the book Through Dakota Eyes.I also have Major Lawrence Taliaferror's autobiography.
finally, I have a photo of some of his descendants that was taken before 1940.
As for Diedrich, I would take what he says with a gra;in of salt. he has made several errors in his book on Old Betsy, that he refused to correct, IN HIS REVISED BOOK ON HER, after I sent him the documentation to disprove what he had written in the first edition of his book on old Betsy.





Dec 11, 2014 at 2:48am hermin1 said:
hello Big Jon: haven't see4n you on the web site in a coon's age.
I hope yyou are doing well.
I need to go and check that posting on Solomon, and then my files, and will get back to you asap.



I'm still around...Still working with Gary Montana.




Dec 11, 2014 at 10:38am
Big Jon:
Yeah, those guys are the mde Lake Calhoun Cloudman. I'm looking for the Father of Solomon Tunkansaiciye, and Iron Heart (Cantemaza-who also went by Marpiyawichasta) (somehow Iron Hawk is the cousin of Iron Heart) I'm pretty sure there are two cloudmen...but not positive tho....The Yellow Medicine group...From the Battle of Wood Lake...Pejutazizi...The Cloudman in those stories...

Here is a question for you, who is the father of Inyangmani Hoksida. (John Roberts)...Who is his mother?...Who is her father?....Thats who I'm looking for, John Roberts Grandfather on his mothers side. Inyangmani's Father-in-law.

After 1862 there were many Cloudmen around. I don't think the Westons or the Eastmans are the guys I'm looking for. Im after the Yellow Medicine group. I already have the wrong family trees. I need the one with John Roberts, Rev. Solomon Tunkansaiciye, I believe the daughter is Victoria (no last name) who married Running Walker (inyangmani)...I'm pretty sure there would be something if these guys were related to Charles Eastman...somebody would have noticed.


Thanks for your input. I have always been watching and checking Oyate Exchange. usually everyday...just not signing in everytime. and I actually appreciate what you do. (its what I do!) I have been working for Gary for 10 years now!!

Thank you, Big Jon






Dec 14, 2014 at 1:19pm
Hermin1
Dear BigJon:
thank you for your reply. I will check my files and records and see what I may have on John Roberts and his family, and get back to you.
merry Christmas.




Dec 14, 2014 at 7:22pm
Hermin1
BigJon: here is what I found in my files:
Inyagmani had 2 wives,but I don't know who one of them was. the other was sister of Solomon Tunkansaiciye, Great Banner woman. His four daughters were wed to Little Crow:

iron cluster woman wed Little Crow in 1838. they had 6 children who died in infancy, and Wowinape/Thomas Wakeman, who wed Judith Minitanka in jan. 1874. their children were Solomon, Ruth, Ida, Jesse,Alex, and John.

Isabel Wakeman/Saiciyewin wed Little Crow at age of 10 yrs. their children were emma b. @1844, jane Williams b. 1849,a daughter and 2 sons(N/A).

makatowin/Eva rice(died 1916), wed little Crow @1846-1853. their children were Hannah Red Earth, and 4 children(N/A).

manikiyewin b. 1838, d. 1900), wed Little Crow aft. 1853.they had 3 children(N/A).
she remarried to David Wells after Little Crow's death.you can check the mdewakanton censuses to find out who their children were.

other children off Inyagmani: Heraka,Peter Tapetatanka(sp), John Roberts who wed Isabel(Mazaokiyewin) Ross. Their children were Elizabeth, Anna, Elisa. His wife was daughter of chief walking iron. No info on her mother.
____________
Solomon Tunkansaiciye was born 1832 Minn. He was son of Cloud Man and Red Berry Picker.
No info on Solomon's wife.he did have a son Abraham b. 12 Jan, 1872, died 1879. Solomon's siblings weremahpiyakoyakewin, Solomon Two Stars, Big Amos, Great Banner Woman-wife of Inyagmani,
Cante maza, and Giiciye.




Dec 15, 2014 at 1:55pm
Hermin1
there are some who think that mahpiyakoyakewin was the mother of Joseph Redwing.
if you and Mr. Montana want more information on these people you seek, I will have to charge you for my time and related expenses.what I have already sent you is privileged information,and can not be distributed to others.





Dec 17, 2014 at 10:02am
Hermin1:
your last posting re. Chief Cloudman has been deleted and you know why.
Claiming authorship of what I had have reasearched and sent to you is plagerism, in every senxe of the word. You were told that the what I sent you is privileged information.
keep it up and we'll ban you from the web site.
For your information Louie and Iare contact and I gladly help him with his research wehen he asks for it. he already has the information, as does Cheryl K.



She deleted a post saying I plagerized her when it is obvious from my previous post that I already know who I am looking for.


Dec 20, 2014 at 8:49am
Big Jon:
So now you just delete posts that you don't like?....I am working for a tribe and have way more access to more information than you do. Big Jon




Hermin1:
big Jon: that is not true!!!
if you have access to information, why don't you use it instead of asking us here for the information?
I gave you the information I had from my searches.You failed to cite me as the source of what you posted under the chief cloud Man set of threads,inferring that you did the search,which is plagerism.
please tell your cousin spiritoftheowlwoman, that profanity, and slander is not allowed on this web site.if the administrator banned her, it was because of this.it is not allowed by Proboards.


She questions my relationship with a tribe and calls me a liar.

Big Jon:
First you call me a plagerist, now you call me a liar...Then you attach me to Lavannah...What is wrong with you? I am working for a tribe. I work for an attorney. Have been for 10 years. I have access to information, but come on here to ask for assistance and to supplement what I already have. plagerism has to do with publishing. I am not publishing anything that I plagerized. It is common practice on this site to refer to previous posts. I have access to information...but there is still information out there. I use this site to further my research.

Wasicus have played a big part in subjugating the Dakota by controlling and containing information. Now, it seems, Hermin1, that you have succeeded the indian agent as a purveyor of our information by the way you have tried to control this website and dole out information as you see fit. That is not your job. Administrators have administrated the Dakota into oblivion. You are the Administrator of this site. Your title being 'Executive Assistant Researcher'. Sounds like another term for, Which is it?, Agent or trader. Feeding off the indians.

Now, how are you related to Cloudman? How is it that you own his material or any on this site? This is what makes me question you. What is your claim to doling out information. Hermin1, Who are you and what are you doing here...Is this your family?...Big Jon


p.s. Maybe you should start a site for your own family.
Googlewebbot gotcha!

[hermin1]

Big Jon: I apologize for the allegation, re. any relation to spirit of the owl woman. I was told by others who know her that she was one of your cousins.I am truly sorry.
I have researched my family, and have the genealogical info on the ones I was able to find information on and don't need to set up a website.
I did not call you a liar. several of the families for whom I did the searches on Chief Cloudman have requested that the records and information I found for them was not to be distributed to others.
the information I transmitted to you was with the permission of the heads of the involved families' permission,with that condition that you don't divulge it to others, which you did by posting it in the Chief Cloudman thread. Are you going to deny it?
and now you just reposted it in spite of the restriction I requested of you.

I did not question your comments about whom you work for.

I am an executive assistant/researcher,to the Administrator of this website and not an Administrator. Only he has the power to delete posts and ban members.

I don't control what information is posted on this website.

if you have a problem with it, contact the Administrator. You'll find his email address in the Members section of this website.
I don't get paid for my research, and don't expect any.

I would recommend that you ask your lawyer employer what constitutes plagerism.
When you post something on the net you are in a sense publishing information. When you make a speech that is considered a publication.
your last comment re, my family was uncalled for, and is irrelevant and immaterial to the discussion.

[hermin1]

BigJon:Hope my response answers your questions and accusations. Your research for the tribe and attorney has helped many families.