Dennis Robinson Family

[hermin1]

i will see what I can find re. that 1840 US Census
_________________
As i no longer have access to Ancestry, I was unable to find an alternate website that had the 1840 US Census for Cayuga county,NY.As i recall, he and spouse Lucy were living with her mother in Cayuga County NY.
Familysearch.org shows Dennis robinson in 1830 living in Springport ,Cayuga,NY.

[madrock]

Mar 1, 2012 13:13:03 GMT -5 @mink said:

I meant the 1840 census at Cayuga County in New York state. That's how one might be able to find out the ages of whatever children Dennis Robinson may have had in that year if they were living with him.

The 1840 federal census lists the name of the head of the family and any pensioners, but enumerates the rest only into age groups.

From what I see, this Dennis Robinson cannot be Feathertonhaugh's "trader Robinson" or the father of Madaline Robinson Rocque. The oldest male in the household is the one that is at least 40 and under 50 years of age making his birthdate between 1800 & 1810, too young to be the father of Thomas (b. abt 1823) & Madaline (b. abt 1820)

Here is every bit of recorded information on this Dennis Robinson:

1840 United States Federal Census
Home in 1840: Venice, Cayuga, New York
Name of Head of Family: Dennis Robinson

Free White Persons - Males - Under 5: 0
Free White Persons - Males - 5 thru 9: 1
Free White Persons - Males - 10 thru 14: 1
Free White Persons - Males - 15 thru 19: 0
Free White Persons - Males - 20 thru 29: 1
Free White Persons - Males - 30 thru 39: 0
Free White Persons - Males - 40 thru 49: 1

Free White Persons - Females - Under 5: 2
Free White Persons - Females - 5 thru 9: 2
Free White Persons - Females - 10 thru 14: 1
Free White Persons - Females - 40 thru 49: 1
Free White Persons - Females - 70 thru 79: 1

Persons Employed in Agriculture: 3

Total Free White Persons: 11
Total All Persons - Free White, Free Colored, Slaves: 11

Pensioners for Revolutionary or military services, included in the forgoing:
Name: Hannah Neely
Age: 77

[mink]

Mar 1, 2012 16:12:02 GMT -5 @madrock said:

Mar 1, 2012 13:13:03 GMT -5 @mink said:

I meant the 1840 census at Cayuga County in New York state. That's how one might be able to find out the ages of whatever children Dennis Robinson may have had in that year if they were living with him.

The 1840 federal census lists the name of the head of the family and any pensioners, but enumerates the rest only into age groups.

From what I see, this Dennis Robinson cannot be Feathertonhaugh's "trader Robinson" or the father of Madaline Robinson Rocque. The oldest male in the household is the one that is at least 40 and under 50 years of age making his birthdate between 1800 & 1810, too young to be the father of Thomas (b. abt 1823) & Madaline (b. abt 1820)

Here is every bit of recorded information on this Dennis Robinson:

1840 United States Federal Census
Home in 1840: Venice, Cayuga, New York
Name of Head of Family: Dennis Robinson

Free White Persons - Males - Under 5: 0
Free White Persons - Males - 5 thru 9: 1
Free White Persons - Males - 10 thru 14: 1
Free White Persons - Males - 15 thru 19: 0
Free White Persons - Males - 20 thru 29: 1
Free White Persons - Males - 30 thru 39: 0
Free White Persons - Males - 40 thru 49: 1

Free White Persons - Females - Under 5: 2
Free White Persons - Females - 5 thru 9: 2
Free White Persons - Females - 10 thru 14: 1
Free White Persons - Females - 40 thru 49: 1
Free White Persons - Females - 70 thru 79: 1

Persons Employed in Agriculture: 3

Total Free White Persons: 11
Total All Persons - Free White, Free Colored, Slaves: 11

Pensioners for Revolutionary or military services, included in the forgoing:
Name: Hannah Neely
Age: 77

That's informative but so far all sources give the birth date of Rix's brother, Dennis, as Feb. 6, 1793. It's also on the Find A Grave website I linked to on page 3 of this thread. Dennis probably is not Madeleine's father, but you can't rule him out on account of age--unless you still want to maintain that your ancestress was born as early as 1810--which I can't believe. In 1820, Rix's brother, Dennis, would have been 27 years old. Too bad this census does not specify the relationships to the head of household, so one could know who that male age 20-29 was. If he was a son of Dennis Robinson, then that would probably suggest the man cannot have been in the Upper Midwest in 1820 at the very least. I'm afraid I must give up on Dennis Robinson, fur trader.

[madrock]

It was a bummer to find the 1840 census did not include names. I've never pursued census research outside the states of Minnesota and Wisconsin and that research never went further back than 1850. I need to think of there being two Dennis Robinson's for now until another piece of the puzzle is found to connect the two. His brother Rix being in the fur trade has to keep the option open. I have to address some Wolfchild v. USA business for a couple of days and come back again to the trader Robinson story again from scratch.

[hermin1]

madrock:
I also have in my records that Thomas Robinson had another sister named Mary.
John Mooers(b. 1828 - 1890), son of Hazen Mooers was married twice: first to Mary Nagiyuhewin, but they did not have kids.
John's second spouse was Rosalia frenier and they had Moses b. 1849,the twins Mary Ann and Jane Ann born 1851 ,and james born1856. John bought some land and farmed it, near Thomas Robinson, in Lincoln County,MN.they were good friends.
John was also a scout for the Army.
__________
correction:
John Mooers second wife was rose/Nape Frenier. I don't know when they were married.according to the Family.the Family History of her mother Mary Helen Wiyantoiciyewin(heirship Report of Nov. 1919),but Rose died before or after 1887, at the age of over 60 years. her father was Francois Frenier. Oneof Rose's siblings, Rosalia Frenier Felix9w/of pierre Felix)had a daughter Helen who married a Robinette.

[mink]

Mar 3, 2012 13:23:37 GMT -5 hermin1 said:

madrock:
I also have in my records that Thomas Robinson had another sister named Mary.
John Mooers(b. 1828 - 1890), son of Hazen Mooers was married twice: first to Mary Nagiyuhewin, but they did not have kids.
John's second spouse was Rosalia frenier and they had Moses b. 1849,the twins Mary Ann and Jane Ann born 1851 ,and james born1856. John bought some land and farmed it, near Thomas Robinson, in Lincoln County,MN.they were good friends.
John was also a scout for the Army.

According to MadRock, Madeleine Rocque's Indian name was Standing Buffalo Woman [if I recall correctly] and now you give "Nagiyuhewin" for a Mary--but Featherstonhaugh has the Dakota equivalent for "White Hair" as the name of Thomas Robinson's sister. In your experience, was it a practice for the Dakota to have more than one name--perhaps one being a kind of "nickname"?

[hermin1]

The custom with the Dakotas was to give the child a name designating its birth order, ie winona if the first born was a girl,Caske if it was a boy,and so on. Then the child was given a name that was descriptive, ie,mahpiya wastewin( pretty cloud woman). And yes some dakotas would have yet another name. skawin would be a descriptive name(white woman).
Post the name that Featherstonehaugh mentioned, and we will see if there is a translation for it.

[mink]

I'll just repost what Mad Rock posted earlier in this thread:

SEPTEMBER 24, 1835 - ASCENDING THE MINNAY SOTOR (ST. PETER'S RIVER, LATER MINNESOTA RIVER)
page 311: [J]ust before 5pm . . . . we suddenly came up with several canoes on the left bank . . . several people including "a very beautiful young half-breed girl, about seventeen years old, with fine flaxen hair." . . . . "We stopped for a short time, and missing the flaxen-haired beauty" . . . . I told Milor [Sibley's recommended guide] to ask where she was, when they pointed her out to me hiding herself behind one of the trees. Perceiving we were white men, and knowing she was the daughter of a white man, a (cont'd next page)
page 312: modest feeling, which the others seemed to be strangers to, had taken possession of her, and she was evidently reluctant to show herself. Upon inquiring into her history, I learnt that she was the daughter of an American trader named Robinson, who had lived some time among the Nacotahs, by an Indian woman, who had lived with him as his wife. Having collected his debts in the Indian country, he left his family under pretence of business at Prairie du Chien, and had never returned to them."
page 313: "They [the Indian women who asked also for pork & biscuit] answered that white men came amongst them and took wives, who thought of nothing but taking care of their children and their goods when they were travelling about the country; and that when they had collected all their skins they took everything away, and never came back again. That this was what Robinson had done : he had told his wife he was going a journey, that she must take care of the little boy and the little girl they had, and he would soon be back and bring them all new clothes; that (cont'd next page)
page 314: he never came came the first winter . . . . he never came back for fifteen winters . . . . that Pahkah Skah [there is a dash above the first and third letter "a"], or 'White Hair,' was now seventeen years old, and her brother was a very good hunter. I desired Milor to tell them that perhaps Robinson was dead; but they said that Milor knew better, for he had seen him two years ago at Prairie du Chien."
[When Featherstonhaugh continued to press that "good men loved their wives and children" Milor and the voyeaguers laughed and teased him saying if he stayed in the country he "should have Pahkah Skah!"]
[They shoved off soon making bivouac up river on the right bank. There is no further mention of the trader Thomas Robinson in this two volume essay]

[hermin1]

The name nagiyuhewin is the name Mary Robinson had, that is why it was posted.Assuming she was the third child her other name would be Hapstin.

[hermin1]

paka ska means yonder white head, or white head yonder.

[mink]

Now you are assuming three sisters of Tom Robinson, but I'm not sure why. What does Nagiyuhewin mean in English? I know it doesn't mean "Standing Buffalo Woman". There doesn't seem to be a "Winona" involved, but what I'm wondering is whether "Pahkah Skah" [White Hair] could be a nickname and whether this girl could have had another name like Standing Buffalo Woman or Nagiyuhewin--whatever this last means.

[hermin1]

i am not assuming anything. Thomas robinson had 2 sisters, madeline, and mary.

Nagiyuhewin means has or possesses spirit woman.

Featherstonehaugh wrote "that.....pah-kah-ska" indicates that the reference was to "that white head yonder'.Featherstone haugh may have stretched it to mean white hair.
The dakota word for paka ska is ; pa means head,ka means yonder or at a distance, ska which means white.
the mark above the a's is the accent mark.

[mink]

I apologize and now see what you meant by "third child". From your explanation of the name that Featherstonhaugh wrote as "Pahkah Skah", it does seem more like someone was saying to the Englishman "that white head yonder" and was not actually giving him her Dakota name. Regardless, why would anybody put "yonder" in someone's given name?[although the way Featherstonhaugh writes one would think this *was* the girl's actual name] It doesn't make sense to me. What do you think?

[hermin1]

that is correct, that someone was saying to Feathertonehuagh"that white head yonder". Look at the context in which it was written. that someone was not giving the girl's name, but pointing her out to the him.

[mink]

I was going over this thread looking for mention of "Angelique Jeffries" because I accidentally stumbled on her baptismal record. But then something else struck my eye and it has to do with John Mooers who married someone named Mary, a sister of Thomas Robinson. According to "Through Dakota Eyes" this John Mooers [son of Hazen] was born in 1826--but in the same post--I think it was by Mad Rock--his estimated birth date was 1820 due to an age he [John] had given in a census. But, throughout this the present thread, Mary's age is given as nearly ten years younger than that of John. Such as "John Moore, age 62, Male, Color marked H, Place of birth MN, Parents not of foreign birth
Mary Moore, age 55".

I think that, regardless of whether John Mooers was born in 1820 or 1826, it is doubtful that his wife, Mary, can have been the daughter of Dennis Robinson. For example, in the above quote from the census, Mary is seven years her husband's junior. That means if John had been born in 1820, Mary had to have been born in 1827. There is no indication of Thomas Robinson having still been in Minnesota in 1827--and the later date for the birth of John Mooers makes Mary birth year 1831--virtually impossible for a daughter of Dennis Robinson in Minnesota by a native woman.

In the narrative of Featherstonhaugh, only two children of Robinson the trader are mentioned--a boy who was a good hunter and a beautiful flaxen-haired girl. In this same account, the girl was estimated to be 17 [in 1835] and still unmarried. And the father, Robinson, was said to have already been away from his native wife and children for 15 winters. If this Mary Mooers was the sister of Tom and Madeleine Robinson, she was most likely a half-sister. After all, if the mother of the boy and the girl did not see Dennis Robinson for years, why should she not marry someone else?

I may have missed a vital component in all this, but it appears that Featherstonhaugh's blonde beauty must be Madeleine Robinson Rocque--and none other.

_________
Thomas Robinson shows up in the pre 1862 Annuity Rolls for the Minnesota Siouxs or Dakota Indians..

[mink]

Oops! I meant to write "There is no indication of Denniss Robinson having still been in Minnesota in 1827-"

[mink]

Also....

"[footnote 8] - 1880 FEDERAL CENSUS, Minnesota, Lincoln County, Hope Township, Enumeration District No. 139, Dwelling & Family No. 23:
Moore, John, White, Male, age 56, Head of family, married, Farmer,
Place of birth MN, Father's place of birth MN, Mother's place of birth DC
Date of birth calculated as 1824
Moore, Mary, Indian, Female, age 41, Wife, married, Keeping House,
Place of birth MN, Father's place of birth MN, Mother's place of birth MN
Date of birth calculated as 1839
Robertson, Samual, Indian, Male, age 23, Cousin, single, Farmer,
Place of birth MN, Father's place of birth MN, Mother's place of birth MN
Robinette, Theo., Indian, Male, 20, Cousin, single, Farmer,
Place of birth MN, Father's place of birth MN, Mother's place of birth MN

[footnote 9] - 1885 MINNESOTA CENSUS, Lincoln County, Hope, District 2, Family 19:
John Moore, age 62, Male, Color marked H, Place of birth MN, Parents not of foreign birth
Mary Moore, age 55, Female, Color marked H, Place of birth MN, Parents not of foreign birth
Mattie Moore, age 35, Female, Color marked H, Place of birth MN, Parents not of foreign birth
Samuel Robinson, age 23, Maile, Color marked H, Place of birth MN, Parents not of foreign birth
Oliver Robinson, age 8, Male, Color marked H, Place of birth MN, Parents not of foreign birth"

These cousins--was their name Robinson, Robertson or Robinette?? I wonder if the contention in "Through Dakota Eyes" that Mary Mooers was the sister of Thomas Robinson is even true.

[madrock]

Really great dialogue on this thread this afternoon. I've been reading and digesting for nearly an hour. Hope I can add something soon. My Eye Doctor follow-up is in the morning.

[mink]

The Mooers family newsletters, referenced here previously, have John Mooers born in 1822 in the issue in which he is mentioned. This seems right as Hazen Mooers is first mentioned as being in Minnesota in 1819. He then took up with Lightning Appears Woman and had a son [John] by her. Later on he took up with Grey Cloud Woman, with whom Hazen had the three daughters.

[mink]

Of the "cousins" of the "Moore" family mentioned in the 1880 census I believe I have found one--although I can't say what the familial connection is. There is "Theo. Robinette" believed to be age 20 at the time--and I did find the grave of a Theodore Robinette in the St. Peter's Church Cemetery at Mendota, MN. Theodore was born in 1859 which would, indeed, have made him about 20 in 1880. The Robinet [or Robinette] family was very well attested in the baptismal records of the first priests of Mendota, Galtier and Ravoux. They seem to have been allied by marriage to the Turpins, another Mendota family--one of whom lived to be 100. The earliest baptismal record of a Robinette I found was that written by Father Galtier in 1842, affirming he had baptised a certain Joseph, the son of a Robinette [no first name given] and a "sauvagesse", meaning a native woman. So it's clear that the Robinettes were of metis background. The Henry Sibley Papers include a "personal account" for a "Mrs. Robinette" between the years 1842-1847. There are several other personal accounts, as well. BTW, I also came across the snapshot of a letter to Henry Sibley from Rix Robinson. The two were evidently well acquainted. I could scarcely hope that anybody named Dennis Robinson would be mentioned--and I was not pleasantly surprised.