helen
Full Member
Posts: 20
|
Post by helen on Nov 17, 2009 7:15:29 GMT -5
Louis Menard had several daughters: Amelia/Mele who md Charles Rulo, Rosalise who md Joseph Lionais, Sophie who md Eli Bedard and Pelagie who md Henry Goulet. They all lived in Sioux City before relocating to Richardson Co NE. Louis Menard probably had several different wives.
Have found the following articles that state the following:
1) A history of the Dakota or Sioux Indians: from their earliest traditions and
... By Doane Robinson Chapter XXIV pgs 245-249
Mesdames Reulo, Bedaud and Traversee sisters, these women were half Yanktons and sisters of Charles F.Picotte
1858 Yankton Treaty Article #7
On account of their valuable services and liberality to the Yanctons, there shall be granted in fee to Charles F. Picotte and Zephyr Rencontre, each, one section of six hundred and forty acres of land, and to Paul Dorian one-half a section; and to the half-breed Yancton, wife of Charles Rulo, and her two sisters, the wives of Eli Bedard and Augustus Traverse
Trying to determine how the Menard girls are sisters of Charles F. Picotte and who their sister is that is married to Augustus Traversier.
Have a copy of a document about Pelagie Menard b 1831 in Vermillion in Sioux County that states her mother is Margo or Marguerite a Yankton Sioux and that Margo is the daughter of the late chief named Wa Ki Tah Kende.
Have copy of a document about three children of Amelia/Mele Menard-Rulo that states she is a Yancton halfbreed and the daughter of Mele and Big Foot who was a warrior of the Sioux Indians.
An article on Louis Menards dau Rosalie (Sioux City IA) who married Joseph Leonais states her mother is Klanhaywin and per your web site this translates to Flys By Woman.
Can any one shed any light on these issues?
Thank you
Helen
|
|
|
|
Post by hermin1 on Nov 18, 2009 9:27:48 GMT -5
helen: I will see what I can find for you.In the meantime, find the posting re. the Iapi Oyae alphabetized Index on our website. there might be some records re. the Menards and Traversies.
________________
Augustus was married twice: Felicit Dusant or Ducant.she died in 1895, Dewey,SD
His second spouse was Blue Blanket Woman who was born Sioux city, IA @ 1840, and died june 1900.
will add more info here as I find it.
Update; Pelagie Menard was baptized 14 May, 1835. parents listed as _Menard and Elizette___________.sponsor was Pierre LaChande. (Ref. the tepee and the church).
Sophie Menard was bap. June, 1840 she was 1/1/2 yrs. old. parents listed as Louis Menard and Indian Woman.( ref. page 13, The Tepee and the church)
Melanie Menard was born @ 1838 and baptized age 6 on 14 June, 1842. by Rev. C. Hoeken at Little Missouri(Ref. The Teepee and the church).
charles F. Picotte s/o Honore Picotte and Eagle woman, married Margurite Laflesche d/o Chief iron eyes aka Joseph La Flesche.
_____________________
The record I have( Ref. results of search at world connect Project connect for chief Big foot) say he had a daughter Brings white Woman with his 3rd spouse Wik'ozawin.Would you be willing to post a copy of this document?You failed to cite the reference for this alleged document.
You also mentioned the children of Amelia Menard-Rulo. what were their names?
|
|
helen
Full Member
Posts: 20
|
Post by helen on Nov 19, 2009 1:33:57 GMT -5
Thank you for your kind response. Here is a transcription of the two documents I was referring to. Charles & Amelia (Rulo/Rouleau) have other children born later, and also a couple born earlier that are not mentioned.
The State of Iowa
Woodbury County
Be it remembered that on this 21st day of August A.D. 1856, before the undersigned, a notary Public in and for the county aforesaid, came Francis LACHARITE of this county and state, who being duly sworn by me as to his personal knowledge touching the identity of Plagie Minard a half bree of the Yankton tribe of Sioux Indians, her parentage, her birthplace and time of birth deposith and saith as follows;
“I’m personally aquainted with Plagie Minard, and now her to be a half breed. She is the daughter of Margo, or Marguerite, a Yancton Sioux woman and daughter of one of the late chiefs name Wa Ki Tah Kende. She was born at Vermillion in the Sioux County in the year Eighteen hundred and thirty one.”
his
Francis x Lacharite
mark
Sworn to and subscribed before me the day and year above written. In testimony whereof I have hereunto set my official signature and affixed my notarial seal.
M.L. Moore
Notary Public
The State of Iowa
Woodbury County
Be it remembered that on this 28th day of August Eighteen Hundred and six, before me the undersigned a notary public, in and for the county aforesaid came Francis LACHARITE, a citizen of this County and State, who being duly sworn to me as to his personal knowledge touching the identity of Zoe RULEAUX, David RULEAUX, and Matilda RULEAUX, all quarter breeds, of the Yancton tribe of Sioux Indians, their birth place and time of birth, upon this oath deposith and as follows;
“I am personally acquainted with Zoe RULEAUX, David RULEAUX, and Matilda RULEAUX. They are all quarter breeds as above of the Yancton tribe of Sioux Indians”.
“Zoe RULEAUX is a daughter of Mele, a Yancton halfbreed woman of the Sioux Indians, and daughter of Mele, a daughter of Big Foot, who was a Yancton warrior of the Sioux Indians – she was born in Woodbury County in the State of Iowa on the 25th day of December in the year Eighteen hundred and fifty two.
“David RULEAUX is a son of the same woman (Mele) and was born in Woodbury County in the State of Iowa, on the 21st day of May in the year Eighteen hundred and fifty four”
“Matilda RULEAUX is a son of the same woman (Mele) and was born in Dacotah County in the Territory of Nebraska on the 26th day of March in the year Eighteen hundred and fifty six”
his
Francis X Lacharite
Mark
Sworn to and subscribed before me the day and year first above written, In testimony whereof I have hereunto set my official signature and affixed my notarial seal.
M.L. Moore
Notary Public
|
|
helen
Full Member
Posts: 20
|
Post by helen on Nov 19, 2009 1:42:53 GMT -5
Sioux City Sunday Journal March 30, 1924 (she was 96 years old when this article appeared)
Aged Visitor Saw the First Murder That Was Committed in Sioux City
Mrs. Amelia Rulo Was Here When White Settler Came.
By Gertrude Henderson. (Photo by Kozy Studio)
Mrs Amelia Rulo who is visiting in Sioux City with her daughter Mrs Zella Drips, 1207 Eleventh Street, is perhaps the only person now living who saw this county before the arrival of the first white settlers. Mrs Rulo is the daughter of the noted voyageur and trader, Louis Menard, and his Indian wife, Flies By. She was born in 1833 at a place halfway between the mouth of the Big White River and the Black Hills. In 1850 her father had an establishment near Fort Pierre. Here Amelia became the wife of Charles Rulo and her sister Rosalie the wife of Joseph Lionnais. In company with Jo Lionnais, the Menards, Rulos, and Eli Bedard came to settle in this territory in the early 50's. Mrs Rulo who was then in her teens, remembers distinctly the events during the settlement of Sioux City and the coming of the first white pioneers. She remembers War Eagle whom she says the Indians called Little Eagle. She remembers the excitement caused by the arrival of Mrs Sangster, the sister of Jo Lionnais, and the first white woman to make her home in Sioux City.
She knew Dr Cook, describing him as a pleasant, friendly man
Asked if she had known Reverend Father DeSmet (sp) the famous missionary, she signified an enthusiastic affirmative. She had known him when she was a little girl. He had lodged with her father many times. The Indians called him “Black Robe” and held him in great esteem.
Mrs Rulo was present at the dance where the trouble started the night Thompson killed Norwood, the first murder committed in Woodbury County. In fact her sister Sophia, was the woman in the case. Rulo entered a claim near the stockyards, which he sold about 1854 and moved with his family to Rulo, Nebraska which was named for him. Mrs Rulo has made her home there for a number of years. After visiting in Sioux City she expects to visit a son in Wagner SD.
|
|
helen
Full Member
Posts: 20
|
Post by helen on Nov 19, 2009 1:52:36 GMT -5
From Wikipedia
First Bride's Grave is tucked in a corner pocket of South Ravine Park, lies a series of paths, trails, and steps leading to the First Bride of Sioux City’s Grave. Her name was Rosalie Menard and she was born in 1838. She was one of seven children that her father, Louis Menard, and mother, KLANHAYWIN Menard, had together. She had two sisters and four brothers. Some time in 1852, her family moved into the area of Perry Creek and the Missouri River. There, is where they became acquainted with Joseph Leonais. He was a French/Canadian fur trapper like Louis Menard, and he had decided to make his home in the area. Rosalie and Joseph were married by a traveling Catholic Priest in 1853, while she was in her teens, and he was about twenty-nine years old. They had a total of four children; Joseph II, Josephine, Rosalie, and William. At the beginning of their marriage, they lived in the cabin he had built near Perry Creek; close to what is now 2nd and Water Street. They later moved to a farm along the Floyd River. In 1865, shortly after giving birth to her youngest son, William, she died at the age of twenty-seven. She was the first bride of a non-native American to be wed in Sioux City, Iowa, thus receiving her title.
_________________
the first Bride's Grave is on a hilltop at South Ravine park overlooking Highway75. it is visible from the highway.My siblings and I used to hike ou t there many years ago and play, and we always climbed the hill to see her grave.
|
|
|
|
Post by hermin1 on Nov 19, 2009 16:01:15 GMT -5
helen: You know what I am thinking?I think that the Mele or Amelia fly by or Fly by Night is the one who may have been Big Foot's Daughter. Remember Amelia married Louis and they in turn had a daughter Amelia, also called Mele.does this make sense to you? there is a section on our website concerning the wounded Knee Massacre. I know there are some listings of who was killed and who survived. although what I am thinking also is that by the time of the Massacre, Amelia was not with big foot then, she was married to Louis Menard.tis wold also explain why only one daughter was listed for Big foot by the descendent who posted his tree at World Connect Project.
|
|
helen
Full Member
Posts: 20
|
Post by helen on Nov 19, 2009 16:45:11 GMT -5
Although I have given that serious consideration, I don't believe it can be the same Big Foot, because the time period is wrong. Flys By Woman who married Louis Menard their daughter Amelia/Mele who married Charles Rulo was born 7 Mar 1833 White River NE and this date is supported by a document by Louis Menard. (I have not personally seen the document) On the internet they show Big Foot as being born ca 1825? so he would have only been about 8 years old when his grandaughter Amelia Menard-Rulo was born. I know there's lots of room for errors in dates and I guess they just don't know and that's why they say 1825?
|
|
|
|
Post by akhummingbird on Nov 20, 2009 4:38:15 GMT -5
charles F. Picotte s/o Honore Picotte and Eagle woman, married Margurite Laflesche d/o Chief iron eyes aka Joseph La Flesche. _____________________ Marguerite LaFlesche (daughter of Joseph/Chief Iron Eyes and sister of Susan LaFlesche) was married to Charles F Picotte JUNIOR. born 1865 - son of Charles F Picotte born 1830. Charles F Picotte born 1830 was the son of Honore Picotte and Padianopapi (sister of Struck-by-Ree). Charles F Picotte's mother died when he was young. Honore's next common-law wife was Eagle Woman Who All Look At (aka Matilda Galpin) who became Charles F Picotte's step-mother. Charles F Picotte born 1830 had two wives: Winona Waonsidawin (Merciful) and then Louise Benoit. |
|
|
|
Post by akhummingbird on Nov 22, 2009 5:00:53 GMT -5
Hello Helen, I subscribe to Ancestry.com and found a public family tree that lists a Augustus Langlois Traversie born 24 Nov 1810 in St. Francois-du-Lac, Quebec, Canada who was married to two women. 1) Blue Blanket Woman per Timber Lake SD Museum Genealogy Files (no parent or children listed) and 2) Filicette DuCant born Jan 1823 in Nebraska Territory and they had 14 children. Link = trees.ancestry.com/tree/5369150/person/-1463345009Augustus and Filicette had a son named Paul Traversie (born 1845) who married Mary Brugier (born 1846) One of their children was a Mary Traversie (born 1870) who married Edward Dupris (born 1856). Per my grandparent's notes of Lucille Van Solen's probate (she was a granddaughter of Honore Picotte. Honore was Charles F Picotte's father) - Honore had 4 Indian women who claimed to have his children. One Yankton Indian- there is no name listed - but that woman had a daughter Margarette (born 1849) who married Felix Brunot. Honore's unnamed Yankton Wife also married someone named Gabe and had a daughter named Lula Gabe (born Feb 1869) who married Peter Dupris (born 1850). Peter was Edward Dupris's brother...so I feel like I'm grabbing at straws - there is some sort of Dupris-Traversie-Picotte connection here - but sorry - I still can't connect Charles F Picotte as a half-brother to the Menard sisters... regards, Barbara |
|
helen
Full Member
Posts: 20
|
Post by helen on Nov 23, 2009 4:15:20 GMT -5
Barbara - "thank you" for your help. Not being familiar with naming practices would the giving of the tribal name Si Tanka aka "Big Foot" to Theophile Traversie below, indicate that he is a descendant of Big Foot aka Spotted Elk?
Helen
Theophile L. Traversie aka: Si Tanka or “Big Foot” b 3 Mar 1934
Parents: Theophile & Lillie (Jewett) Traversie
Grandparents: Paul and Mary (Bruguier) Traversie d/o Theophile
Great grandparents: Augustus Traversie & Blazing Cloud
Great-Great grandfather: Chief War Eagle
Blazing Cloud (Mahpiyakaidewin) b 1822 MN Terr d 1858 Sioux City, Woodbury Co IA
md 21 Jun 1837 at Ft Vermillion
Theophile Bruguier (Wowapikaga) b 31 Aug 1813 L’Assumpcion, Quebec, Canada) d 18 Feb 1895 Salix, Woodbury Co IA
md 21 Jun 1837 at Fort Vermillion
=====
Bismark Tribune 5 Sep 2007
Theophile Traversie carried on ancestors' traditions by Jo Hall
Theophile L. Traversie, who had the tribal name Si Tanka or "Big Foot," came from a long line of leaders of his people and he carried on in their tradition, serving his country as a warrior in the U.S. Navy, continuing his studies to receive a Juris Doctor degree and helping his people. Finally, after years of service to his people across the nation, he was able to retire to a ranch near Timber Lake to raise cattle and horses, something that had been a dream of his. In failing health, Theophile died Tuesday, Aug. 28, 2007, at Medcenter One in Bismarck, N.D., at the age of 73. He was born March 3, 1934, in Dewey County to Theophile and Lillie (Jewett) Traversie, who were both members of the Cheyenne River Sioux Tribe. Theophile was the third youngest of two boys and nine girls in the family. He is the great great grandson of Chief War Eagle, who is buried on top of a bluff overlooking Sioux City, Iowa. His father was the son of Mary Bruguier (married to Paul Traversie) who descended from Blazing Cloud (married to Theophile Bruguier) who was the daughter of Chief War Eagle. Theophile attended school in Timber Lake. His family was the first Indian family to attend that school after attempts to force parents to send their children to Cheyenne River Indian Boarding School. As a teenager, he rode in country rodeos and took part in 4-H activities in the Green Grass district. He served in the U.S. Navy from July 1952 to July 1956, with three years and three months of it on a naval destroyer making one complete world cruise. He attended Northern State University in Aberdeen, graduating in 1963 with a bachelor's degree in business administration and a minor in political science and economics. Following that, he attended the University of South Dakota Law School and received his Juris Doctor degree.
After college, he was a legal aid attorney for the Cheyenne River
Reservation. In 1970 he became a tribal chairman. During his time as a chairman, they achieved funding for construction and operation of a 21
mile water pipeline from the Oahe reservoir to Eagle Butte, which
eventually enabled communities and rural residents in Dewey and Ziebach counties between the Moreau and Cheyenne rivers to receive water for domestic and irrigation purposes. From 1972 to 1975, he was a chairman for the United Sioux Tribes and its
economic development arm and the United States Sioux Development Corporation, which includes all nine South Dakota tribes. In 1964 Theophile joined the Bureau of Indian Affairs in the U.S. Department of Interior as a Credit and Economic Development officer for the Southern Ute Agency in Ignacio, Colo.
In 1976 he transferred to the BIA to the Portland Area Office as an Assistant Credit and Economic Development officer. In 1978 he transferred back to South Dakota as a superintendent of the Cheyenne River Agency. In 1981 the BIA transferred him to the Aberdeen area office as a credit officer. He was transferred again in 1984 to the Portland area office as a Tribal Government Services officer. In 1990 he became the Tribal Government Specialist in the Portland office.
In 1993 he married Ly Sloan after working at Silitz Agency. He was superintendent until he retired in September of 1994. After his wife was rifted coordinator by President Clinton to reduce the Federal Work Force, they moved to his home ranch in April of 1995.
Theophile was a member of the Benevolent and Protective Order of Elks in Rapid City Lodge No. 1187. He also enjoyed golfing and bowling. He is survived by his wife, Ly Traversie of Timber Lake; son, Denie L. Traversie of Jacksonville, Fla.; daughter, Leslie Traversie of Portland, Ore.; sisters, Ruby T. Marshall and Ty Traversie-LeCompte of Oregon, Celinda Traversie and Vivian Sampson; and numerous nephews and nieces.
His parents, sisters Violet Rosales, Delma Traversie, Eugenia Iron Moccasin, Georglyn Sampson and Naomi Molintford, brothers Orville "Buster" Traversie and Charles Traversie preceded him in death. Funeral services for Theophile were this noon, Wed, Sept. 5, at the H.V. Johnston Cultural Center in Eagle Butte under the direction of Kesling Funeral Home of Mobridge. The Rev. Norman Blue Coat officiated. Burial of his cremains will be at the family ranch at a later date. Sisters of Harmony and Frankie Thompson sang at the services. Wakinya Maza was the drum group. Legion Post 191 conducted military honors. Casketbearers were Ron Mackaben, Brad Mackaben, Dave Pesicka, Dewey Traversie, Delwin Fiddler and Alex Guerrero. Honorary bearers were Earl and Elena Roberts and family, Missouri Breaks staff, CRST Ambulance staff, Kevin and Judy Monk, Dr. Sarrigiannidis and
Medcenter One staff, Kevin and Maria Keckler, Dixie LeCompte and family, Marty Ward and family, Candy Jewett and family, Roger and Patty Russell, Gary Stranger and Edna Mae Johnson, West Winds Health Services and all Theophile's other relatives and friends.
An all night wake service began Tuesday evening at the cultural center with a prayer service, preceded by family and friends following in procession from the 4-mile junction.
|
|
helen
Full Member
Posts: 20
|
Post by helen on Nov 23, 2009 16:50:38 GMT -5
Found this info at GoogleBooks, it's only a snippet view that states Wa-ko-tah-kende a Yankton woman had (5) children by (3) trading partners MENARD, PICOTTE and CHENIE from 1831-1842.
Major problems in American Indian history: documents and essays By Albert L. Hurtado, Peter Iverson page 218
And others brought their white wives to their trading posts, which was a source of anguish and embarrassment to the native wives. A few traders polygamously married Indian sisters (such as Bill Williams marrying Osage sisters), or two brothers married sisters, or brothers or business partners shared the same Indian woman.
Wa-ko-tah-kende, a Yankton woman from the chiefly line of Little Crow, had five children by three trading partners Menard, Picotte and Chenie - from 1831 to 1842. Late in life she married an Anglo-American. Just as fur trade fathers were likely to have multiple marriages full-blood and mixed-blood women frequently had more than one spouse. The Pawnee mother of ..(snippet)
|
|
|
|
Post by akhummingbird on Nov 25, 2009 3:09:06 GMT -5
Found this info at GoogleBooks, it's only a snippet view that states Wa-ko-tah-kende a Yankton woman had (5) children by (3) trading partners MENARD, PICOTTE and CHENIE from 1831-1842. Major problems in American Indian history: documents and essays By Albert L. Hurtado, Peter Iverson page 218 Helen - this quote is so intriguing! If you find the book I would like to know the source for this statement - as I have never seen it anywhere else. In googling for Menard - I found an old Oyate string about the Menards - don't know if you've seen it before: oyate1.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=ancestry&action=print&thread=1558regards, Barbara |
|
|
|
Post by akhummingbird on Nov 25, 2009 3:11:51 GMT -5
Barbara - "thank you" for your help. Not being familiar with naming practices would the giving of the tribal name Si Tanka aka "Big Foot" to Theophile Traversie below, indicate that he is a descendant of Big Foot aka Spotted Elk? Helen Helen - I don't know. Can't find anything to indicate Traversie was a descendant of Big Foot. sorry, Barbara |
|
|
|
Post by hermin1 on Nov 25, 2009 16:08:04 GMT -5
Helen I am guessing that maybe Mr. traversie was given the name "big foot " by the Indians.
|
|
|
|
Post by akhummingbird on Nov 26, 2009 3:58:43 GMT -5
Helen I found the following story posted on Ancestry...written by a Traversie descendant (see trees.ancestry.com/pt/ViewStory.aspx?tid=9784592&pid=-691520368&oid=6e91a441-1f3e-4534-afc6-956b9a4f0e6b&pg=32768 ) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Who Was Filicette Scar-Arm DuSant? So far, what we know about Filicette, the wife of August Traversier, is slight, and most of that must be inferred from Federal Census reports taken after she was married. Her life before marriage at the age of 14 is mysterious. She is the "port of entry" for Indian blood into the August Traversie line. Family oral history tells us that she spoke Lakota, French, Swedish and English, but could not read or write. One census report identifies her as "hb" (half-blood) and her children as "qb" (quarter-blood). She could have been the daughter of a French Canadian trader and his Indian wife. Augustus Traversie, according to his cousin Joseph Lionais, had "gone up" the Missouri in the early thirties and in 1837 was living "just below the mouth of the Vermilion river in Dakota." Traversie had been working for the American Fur Company, whose headquarters were in St. Louis, Missouri. So, he may have been a work friend or acquaintance of her father. Fort Pierre was a hub of activity for trappers, traders, Indians, settlers. One unidentified source says that she could have been a Picotte. Other researchers have listed her last name as DuCant, DuSant, DeSmet, Desautels, Dufaut, Dusang-Dussault, and Dussalt. No proof for any of them. Her birth place in the census reports is variously given as Nebraska Territory and Minnesota; the Nebraska Territory was a large area encompassing what became parts of several states as they joined the Union. But, thanks to the historical detective work of Arlon Gage, one of her great-grandsons, we know that most probably Filicette was the daughter of Louis Menard. Two documents identify her as the sister of Charles Rulo's wife. From George W. Kingsbury, History of Dakota Territory, South Dakota Its History and its People, Vol 1, 1915, The S.J. Clarke Publishing Company, page 139: "In the Yankton Treaty with the Yankton Sioux Indians made on the 19th day of April, A.D., 1858, Ratified by the U.S. Senate February 17, 1859 .... On account of their valuable services and liberality to the Yanktons, there shall be granted in fee to Charles F. Picotte and Zehyr Rencourte, each, on section of 640 acres of land, and to Paul Dorain one half a section, and to the half breed Yankton wife of Charles Rulo, and to her sisters, the wife of Eli Bedard and August Travers (sic), and to Louis Le Count, each one half a section..." Also, a land patent for Felicity Traverse was recorded on April 19, 1858, at the Vermillion, Dakota Territory land office awarding her the treaty land. The text reads: "Whereas on the 19th day of April 1858 between the commissioner on the part of the United States and the Chiefs and delegates of the Yankton Tribe of Sioux or Dakotah Indians, the half-breed Yankton, wife of Charles Reulo, and her two sisters, the wives of Eli Bedard and Augustus Traverse, became entitled out of the lands ceded by said treaty each to one half a section in fee.... "And whereas, there have been deposited in the General Land Office satisfactory proof that Felicity Traverse is the sister of the wife of Charles Reulo and wife of August Traverse aforesaid....patent ordered to be fixed in favor (illegible words) Felicity Traverse." In John F. Schmidt's A Historical Profile of Sioux City, published by Sioux City Stationary company, 1969, he states on page 14" .... He [meaning Rulo] married Amelia Menard, a sister of Joseph Leonais [actually an inlaw]... She was an attractive single woman at the time William Thompson killed the Indian Agent Norwood. It was because of attentions to Amelia Menard, at a dance at La Charite's house, that the quarrel and murder occurred." Page 12 also states "Louis Menard a brother in law of Leonais [Traversie's cousin], had land near the Plymouth County line...." So, Rulo's [probably Rouleau originally) wife was Amelia Menard; Augustus Traversie's wife was the sister of Amelia Menard. Therefore, Filicette was Filicette Menard. Stories exist claiming that A. Traversie stole one of Theophile Bruguier's three wives, all daughters of Chief War Eagle. If he did, she must have been a wife preceding Filicette. Filicette's son Ambrose was blue-eyed, not possible if his mother was a full-blood Indian daughter of Chief War Eagle. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ warm regards, Barbara |
|
helen
Full Member
Posts: 20
|
Post by helen on Nov 27, 2009 6:51:11 GMT -5
Barbara
I do not believe that Filicette Traversie is a d/o Louis Menard. I do believe that she is a full sister of Charles Picotte and that the Menard girls are half siblings to Filicette and Charles. I believe that they have the same mother but different fathers. It is stated in various articles that Charles F. Picotte is the s/o Honore Picotte. Filicette is also reported to be a d/o Honore Picotte but used the name of her step father DuCant/DuSant etc. I have not located the source of this info yet. There is an affidavit by Louis Menard listing the birth dates and places of his children and Filicette does not appear on the list. He lists his children as
Amelia, Rosalie and Sophie (the sons were not born yet) I have not seen this document. Another affidavit dated 1858 states Amelia, Rosalie and Sophie are the daus of Mele who is the d/o of Mele and grandau of Big Foot. again the sons are not born yet. Another article written about Rosalie Menard-Traversie "First Bride's Grave" states Rosalie has (2) sisters and (4) brothers.
They would be Amelia, Sophie, Wm, Louis, Leon & Oliver. I have found (2) references that state Amelia & Sophie's mother is Klanhaywin, which according to this site translates to Flys by Woman.
An article of interest recently found in: Major problems in American Indian history: documents and essays By Albert L. Hurtado, Peter Iverson page 218
Wa-ko-tah-kende, a Yankton woman from the chiefly line of Little Crow, had five children by three trading partners Menard, Picotte and Chenie - from 1831 to 1842. This book has been ordered to see if it lists a primary source for this info. Do you have any idea how this name would translate? I put a query on this site but no response yet.
Helen
|
|
helen
Full Member
Posts: 20
|
Post by helen on Nov 27, 2009 7:08:40 GMT -5
Barbara
Would you know how it might be possible to obtain the information that is listed below, that details how Felicity Traverse is the sister of Amelia & Rosalie?
Helen
"And whereas, there have been deposited in the General Land Office satisfactory proof that Felicity Traverse is the sister of the wife of Charles Reulo and wife of August Traverse aforesaid....patent ordered to be fixed in favor (illegible words) Felicity Traverse."
|
|
|
|
Post by akhummingbird on Nov 28, 2009 2:46:05 GMT -5
Barbara Would you know how it might be possible to obtain the information that is listed below, that details how Felicity Traverse is the sister of Amelia & Rosalie? Helen "And whereas, there have been deposited in the General Land Office satisfactory proof that Felicity Traverse is the sister of the wife of Charles Reulo and wife of August Traverse aforesaid....patent ordered to be fixed in favor (illegible words) Felicity Traverse." Hello Helen, The way I read it - this information came from a land patent for Felicity Traverse that was recorded on April 19, 1858, at the Vermillion, Dakota Territory land office...so I suppose you could try the South Dakota land office?? I have not seen the document. Barbara |
|
|
|
Post by akhummingbird on Nov 28, 2009 4:03:20 GMT -5
Barbara I do not believe that Filicette Traversie is a d/o Louis Menard. I do believe that she is a full sister of Charles Picotte and that the Menard girls are half siblings to Filicette and Charles. Hello Helen, I don’t believe that Filicette Traversie is the full sister of Charles Picotte (see my observation in scenario #1 below). Here are the possible scenarios I can come up with: 1. Filicette and Charles F share the same mother (Strikes the Ree’s sister) and same father, Honore Picotte. COMMENT: If this was so - there would be no way Filicette would be related to the Menard’s, so the other documents you quoted would not refer to her as a sister to the Menards – which they did. 2. Filicette and Charles F have same mother and different fathers. That would mean that Louis Menard would have “married” Strikes the Ree sister before he got together with Flys By Woman/Klanhaywin. COMMENT: I suppose this is possible, but since Charles and Filicette are both born abt 1830 – it would mean Honore and Louis were messing around with the same woman during the same time period. 3. Filicette’s mother is Fly By Woman and her father is Honore Picotte. Filicette is born abt 1830. (Which means Honore’s messing around with two Yankton women in the same time period). Fly By Woman then marries Louis Menard and Amelia is born 1833, Pelagie is born 1835, and Rosalie and Sophie are born abt 1838. COMMENT – I suppose this is possible. But nothing to support this theory other than your documents that state that the Menards are sisters to Mrs. Traversee and also Charles F. 4. Filicette’s mother is Wa-ko-tah-kende and her father is Honore Picotte. Then Wa-ko-tah-kende also has a child or two or three with Louis Menard. COMMENT: But this isn’t supported by your (2) references that state Amelia & Sophie's mother is Klanhaywin, which according to this site translates to Flys by Woman. Also Wa-ko-tah-kende can NOT be Charles F’s mother because Charle’s uncle is Chief Strikes the Ree. And per your article, Wa-ko-tah-kende is from the Little Crow line. The story “Who Was Filicette Scar-Arm DuSant?” that I posted on Nov. 26 indicates that per the great grand son of Filicette Scar Arm DuSant Treversie – that the Treversie family does not believe the Picotte theory and does believe that Filicette was a sister of the Menards. So – I wish I could find something definite – but it is still nothing but theories. Let me know when you get a copy of “Major problems in American Indian history: documents and essays By Albert L. Hurtado, Peter Iverson”. It will be very interesting to see what source they have for the Wa-ko-tah-kende story. Warm regards, Barbara |
|
dean
Junior Member
Posts: 14
|
Post by dean on Nov 28, 2009 12:35:54 GMT -5
Hello Helen & Barbara
I have been trying to pin Felicite to Honore Picotte as her father for years but have had no success yet.
Barbara's theories have Felicite being born in 1830.
Her tombstone in the LaPlante cemetery reads she was born in 1815 and died in 1895.
She supposedly married Traversie around 1837.
Her first child was born in 1844.
The earliest I can put Picotte in that area is around 1820.
If you go by her census of 1860 it is stated she's 37.
That would put her being born about 1822-23.
If you go by the 1885 Indian census, she gets younger instead of older! LOL
If Felicite was Picotte's daughter, and he moved on and Desant took over...
There only two references that I can find on Dusant.
One is, the 1830/31 Roster in the Fort Tecumseh Journals.
Listing him as a voyager and boatman.
Along with Picotte and Louis Menard.
Two is, The Teepee and the Church Baptismals.
Where in May 13, 1839 - Pelagie Dessant is baptized - 16 years of age - her parents are Louis Dessant and her mother Elisette - the sponsor was Tiboudot.
To add to the confusion - on the same day Pelagie Menard is baptized - 8 years old - parents are Mendard and Elizette - sponsor is Pierre LaCharite.
Does anyone have information on this Elisette, who she might be?
Could Elisette be Felicite's mother?
We know she went by Desant because of the November 11, 1850 baptism of her son Narcisse - parents are Auguste Traversier and Felicite DeSant - sponsor C. Hoeken.
More later.
Dean
|
|
