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Post by Jimmy on May 2, 2007 17:43:48 GMT -5
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Post by Jimmy on May 2, 2007 17:45:39 GMT -5
It is believed that this Martha Stone Hapstin is the Mary Hapistinna listed on the 1889 Census as #27 on the Redwood Settlement. Does anybody have any evidence to prove or disprove this?
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Post by santee1954 on May 2, 2007 18:33:45 GMT -5
Jimmy, I have been wondring if I could be right on a Custon Native American wedding.. But will you please tell me about how it was performed then? I think I known BUT I want to make sure I really know it. That is if you know. It is believed that this Martha Stone Hapstin is the Mary Hapistinna listed on the 1889 Census as #27 on the Redwood Settlement. Does anybody have any evidence to prove or disprove this?
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Post by Jimmy on May 2, 2007 18:40:42 GMT -5
I don't know either. My ggg grandparents were also married by Indian custom in 1835, so I would really like to know. I think there is an account of a Mdewakanton marriage ceremony from the 1830s, but I don't remember what book it was from. Does anybody know? I saw it before, but never got the chance to read it.
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Post by tamara on May 2, 2007 21:49:36 GMT -5
I don't know either. My ggg grandparents were also married by Indian custom in 1835, so I would really like to know. I think there is an account of a Mdewakanton marriage ceremony from the 1830s, but I don't remember what book it was from. Does anybody know? I saw it before, but never got the chance to read it. In terms of a probate, married by Indian Custom is merely a term for marriage that was recognized but not in a church or with a legal document, I dont know that it refers to any type of ceremony preformed by the tribe of the person. There are many jokes about this type of marriage in Indian Country that I will resist posting here. Tamara
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mona
Full Member
Posts: 128
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Post by mona on May 3, 2007 7:30:56 GMT -5
mija, i would like to hear about the indian way of marriage. "Being Dakota" the book has the Wapheton/Sisseton part of marriage back in the day. also ella deloria tells some about marriage. my son and wiwoh'a had a traditional part in their marriage when they married in 2001 in standing rock.
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Post by santee1954 on May 3, 2007 11:51:40 GMT -5
I don't know either. My ggg grandparents were also married by Indian custom in 1835, so I would really like to know. I think there is an account of a Mdewakanton marriage ceremony from the 1830s, but I don't remember what book it was from. Does anybody know? I saw it before, but never got the chance to read it. Jimmy, I was under the impression that ,,, The couple asked the chief or the tribe to become man and wif. With the ok The parents then threw a blanket on the couple and they headed to the woods. In 2 to 3 days later they would reenter the tribe and it was then that they was married. Callled... Married in the site of GOD. That is what I have heard told to me by A Goodteacher. He said that couples still come to him today and asked to be married that way. He allows it BUT the White man has to have that piece of paper now days.
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Post by tamara on May 3, 2007 18:47:47 GMT -5
mija, i would like to hear about the indian way of marriage. "Being Dakota" the book has the Wapheton/Sisseton part of marriage back in the day. also ella deloria tells some about marriage. my son and wiwoh'a had a traditional part in their marriage when they married in 2001 in standing rock. interesting, mona, care to give us a bit of the details? I would love to hear them.
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Post by santee1961 on May 10, 2007 16:17:40 GMT -5
I have been told of some of the courtship and marriage customs that were practiced and I find them very interesting, beautiful and am always somewhat surprised when I find other indigineous cultures who have practiced similar customs a half a world away. I was told these customs by my Grandmothers at a very young age. I always love the custom of the young girl holding a blanket around her self and suitor would hold the blanket up and whisper, using this as a means to get to know each other, plan for something more, etc. The men would line up and if the girl was popular, pretty, etc. she may not get to them all in one evening. I was told it was very proper and women elders were watching to make sure no funny business happened. Yeah, right?! Reminds me of Spanish courtships and the young Spanish girl's who would use her fan (which had lots of hidden meanings to the suitors) and the girl's elders also kept a watchful eye on what went on. I was told that sometimes marriages were also arranged when children were young and several explanations were given to me why this was done. It happened when they were concerned there was maybe too much marrying within their band and they just wanted to make sure the people stayed healthy by not intermarrying. Since the Amish, Mennonites, etc. do the same thing, and we told we weren't supposed to get interested in our cousins, this was probably a good thing to practice. This was something that hit home and I recalled these stories very vividly when my nephew was being treated for cancer at St. Judes Hospital In Memphis. I went with my nephew and my sister and noticed there were several Amish children being treated for leukemia and other blood conditions (up 200% within 6 months). It made my heart ache to see those children and I hoped that maybe their people would make a change within their marriage practices. There was also the business side to things (dowry ~ Hermin1 may give us examples of the Greek customs) and horses were valuable payment for the hand of a young maiden. Divorce also happened and whenever my Grandpa was around my Grandmothers would always tell me how the house belonged to the woman and if a woman didn't want to be married any she would put her husbands belonging outside the door. My Grandpa always had a remark back when my Grandmas would tell this story and it usually was the start of a lively discussion between the Lakota and Dakota people and which was better. It was always done with laughter and love and their love will always stay with me. Another custom I have always admired was when two Indian people are married they had a red cloth, rope, etc. that joined their hands. Very symbolic and beautiful for both the bride and groom and guest. I wished my husband andI had done it and we'll do it at an anniversary! I have always thought of "Indian Marriage" (can't think of any better terms) as being binding and as legal as anywhere else. I know of a couple who were very highly regarded elders. They lived and taught Lakota values, traditions and lifestlyes. It was always so touching to listen to them because they would finish each others sentences and then laugh and say they had been married so long there were no more surprises. When the husband got sick and they called the family for a last visit and everyone was at his bedside, his wife asked the priest to marry them. This startled the children because they had thought their parents were already married. They had been married but it was described as Indian style. The wife/mother told everyone that when it was time for them to marry they simply went off and set up housekeeping. The priest blessed the marriage and I remember being told that he reassured the woman that he felt the couple had been married all that time and the blessing of that union was just like a little insurance and acknowledgement of their years together. I think maybe we all had relatives who went off Indian style and set up housekeeping since we are having trouble finding legal documents. I don't feel that the lack of legal documents means that there weren't binding marriages.
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Post by sunshine on Jun 12, 2007 22:24:10 GMT -5
For those of you who think that I deserted you, I have not! I did not get to go to Knox Cty. this week, as we had a vehicle go down, but hope to next week, as we definitely need to go again!
I have been to the USD, Vermillion library four times now and finding things is very tough going! First of all the book Dakota Indian Scout Roster is not even listed in World Cat, the listing for all of the books in the world. It was suggested to me that it may be part of another piece of literature, even though, I know that it is used OFTEN as a reference book in Through Dakota Eyes. I anyone has info on this book please let us know! Its' information could be invaluable to some one of us!
Regarding Woolworths Books, there are MANY available, but none of them except 2 may be appropriate for our LD search. Those books are Camera and Sketch book, and Santee Dakota Indian Legends. The first can only be found in the Augustanna Western Studies Library and while they do copy things, because one can't take things out of there, it is 132 pages long, but can be purchased through MNHS- I have been told that it is worth the price! The second one can be ordered only through an interlibrary loan from SFalls. In the meantime, that does not tell me where the many biographies are that this man has written. If anyone knows, please let us all know!
The Law School has hundreds of thick books that are filled with copies of every decision that has ever been handed down by any SUPREME COURT. The people said that this info should be in any local court house, but if it isn't by fire or theft, all of these decisions can be found here. We looked here because our family had been sent a letter regarding the fact that our LD had paid taxes on land that had been part of the allocation process and was due a refund of $600+. Aberdeen is also supposed to have such info!
otherwise, they have a wonderful selection of Santee history books. If you are looking for one in particular let me know. Otherwise, type in USD library or SDLN libraries. Please remember that just becasue info is written in a book, does NOT make it TRUE! I have found errors in Danny Liskes' book, Ponca Curse and this week Hermin found errors in the Old Betts book. Check your legal facts to confirm all info! best to all! Sunshine
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Post by tamara on Jun 13, 2007 10:45:07 GMT -5
For those of you who think that I deserted you, I have not! I did not get to go to Knox Cty. this week, as we had a vehicle go down, but hope to next week, as we definitely need to go again! I have been to the USD, Vermillion library four times now and finding things is very tough going! First of all the book Dakota Indian Scout Roster is not even listed in World Cat, the listing for all of the books in the world. It was suggested to me that it may be part of another piece of literature, even though, I know that it is used OFTEN as a reference book in Through Dakota Eyes. I anyone has info on this book please let us know! Its' information could be invaluable to some one of us! Regarding Woolworths Books, there are MANY available, but none of them except 2 may be appropriate for our LD search. Those books are Camera and Sketch book, and Santee Dakota Indian Legends. The first can only be found in the Augustanna Western Studies Library and while they do copy things, because one can't take things out of there, it is 132 pages long, but can be purchased through MNHS- I have been told that it is worth the price! The second one can be ordered only through an interlibrary loan from SFalls. In the meantime, that does not tell me where the many biographies are that this man has written. If anyone knows, please let us all know! The Law School has hundreds of thick books that are filled with copies of every decision that has ever been handed down by any SUPREME COURT. The people said that this info should be in any local court house, but if it isn't by fire or theft, all of these decisions can be found here. We looked here because our family had been sent a letter regarding the fact that our LD had paid taxes on land that had been part of the allocation process and was due a refund of $600+. Aberdeen is also supposed to have such info! otherwise, they have a wonderful selection of Santee history books. If you are looking for one in particular let me know. Otherwise, type in USD library or SDLN libraries. Please remember that just becasue info is written in a book, does NOT make it TRUE! I have found errors in Danny Liskes' book, Ponca Curse and this week Hermin found errors in the Old Betts book. Check your legal facts to confirm all info! best to all! Sunshine I wish to say as well, that for those that may think I have deserted them and what we may have been working on or discussing.... On Monday afternoon, as life does sometimes, I was dealt a blow. My older brother passed on... still hard to believe. I will be saying good-bye to a big brother and all that that means to a little sister. I will be able to respond to emails in a few days. Tamara
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Post by dawn on Jun 13, 2007 12:09:14 GMT -5
Tamara I am very sorry to hear of your loss. You and your family will be inour thoughts.
Dawn
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Post by Kevin on Jun 13, 2007 13:22:27 GMT -5
Does anyone know the history of who Mahpiyata was and why the Island next to Big Island is named Mahpiyata Island on Lake Minnetoka. Thanks
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DarkWolfe
Full Member
Mitakuye Oyasin
Posts: 134
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Post by DarkWolfe on Jun 13, 2007 13:30:27 GMT -5
I will be saying good-bye to a big brother and all that that means to a little sister. I will be able to respond to emails in a few days. Tamara My heart is sorrowful for your loss Tamara. Please know I think of you at this time, and my prayers for you and yours is that you shall be strong and to help you get through the days to come. Remembering those who are gone is the best thing we can do for them.... remember and tell stories about them to others. DarkWolfe
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sav
Full Member
Posts: 90
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Post by sav on Jun 13, 2007 18:06:45 GMT -5
I've also read somewhere bout the native traditional marriage, that the male will often take the last name of the female. Something to do with Mother Clans, & Tribal Bands. Families?!!? I think I read it in a "Luther Standing Bear" book, or a book bout our sioux oyate. Maybe another author. Can't remember.
So after learning this, I see it's different then the traditional non-native marriage. Where the female usually takes the last name of the male.
Sav
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Post by peacekeeper on Jun 13, 2007 22:02:11 GMT -5
Tamara. It is very sad when a member of our family is called before we feel it is their time to go. I can only say that your brother must have been needed greatly to be taken so soon. He must have been a truly unique individual. I grieve for you and your family. At the same time rejoice that he has gone to the Sacred land. Spend time celebrating all of your memories and then when you are ready put them up to take out again whenever you need to feel close to him. We are all here for you if you need us.
Sincerely,
Jackie
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Post by siouxchic on Jun 14, 2007 18:13:25 GMT -5
tamara just read your brother's obituary in the argus leader. he sounded like a good man who lived life to the fullest. my prayers are with you and your family at this sad time.
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Post by hermin1 on Jun 15, 2007 10:52:29 GMT -5
Tamara: My deepest sympathies on thpassing of your brother. May his memory be eternal.
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Post by Martha Stone on Jun 15, 2007 12:48:16 GMT -5
Thanks Dawn for the info. It about blew me away. Many things that I have been hunting for, for 7months! We did not know that Louise Godrey was the 4th wife of Bobdo(Sully). We only knew that her first marriage was to Joseph Godfrey Jr. Will get back to you soon! Sunshine
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Post by dawn on Jun 15, 2007 21:40:59 GMT -5
Glad the information was helpful to you.
Dawn
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